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Fiat India - Future Plans

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Kaushik Talauliker

    Kaushik Talauliker Novizio

    Messages:
    41
    Margao Goa
    Margao - Goa
    Punto Evo 1.3
    So i will stick for Linea. Buying this Month Tuscan Wine just confused for T-jet or MJD. Later i can go for Sienna i used my old one from 2002 till 2009.
    Thankx
  2. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    1,900
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    Whatever they reveal at the top, very little is going to trickle down to India. From what I have heard from the insiders who are working on the products, not much to be happy about. Indeed, with the way they are working towards it, it will be killed at the launch itself. Its frustrating to see the management taking wrong decisions one after the other. Probably once bitten twice shy proverb does not apply to FCA in India. :banghead:
    prabhjot likes this.
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,449
    delhi ncr
    @nkrishnap

    OR: it applies all too greatly! :blackeye::dead:

    I hear on a forum from a pretty senior FCA (Magneti Marelli?) insider based in Italy as well as working on projects in the US that they are, 'up there', shocked at the dismal results of the going-independent with dealers and FASS + drastic, india-alone facelifts of the Punto and new only-for-india Avventura.

    A corollary of this, i believe very rational pessimism about India in terms of profitable investments in new models, is that they're very focussed on China as far as Asia-Pac goes, and going forward on the JEEPs? Mike Manley is Jeep ceo first and Fiat apac head second, i feel. Kevin Flynn, too, a marketing guy with previous work at premium auto marques in germany (lexus) and south africa (JLR) has clearly been chosen for the JEEP mandate (brand, dealership launch, plus exports of the c-suv) and i suspect NOT or barely at all for the 'revivify the FIAT marque'.

    Hope the trickle down to India for the FIAT brand starts happening once the basic design and engineering of the new punto, grand sienna etc is complete in brazil, then perhaps the indian insiders (eg, engineers/product planners) will get a 'green light'.

    Also, unless they find big export markets for any future Fiat-s (which imo can only be: back to europe+n africa+turkey, no market for Indian future Fiats in either China, ASEAN or Japan+Australia) made-in-India, ANY moves here are really, GENUINELY difficult to justify, imo, given what our marketplace is like in general, and esp for Fiat, VW, Skoda, Chevy, Nissan and Tata too. Currently the lights say: red, amber, and amber! Nothing all-new, i suppose, before mid-2017? If then, or at all.

    Unless there's some truth to the persistent suzuki-strategic tie-up rumours?

    Meanwhile, they're subsidising most dealers hugely at considerable expense to keep the 'show' apparently-going-on. Hope that means they'll get the green light sometime soon. The dormant FIAT brand is seeing A LOT of action recently in Europe, Turkey and Brazil+Argentina, in terms of new investments and new models, so maybe India too will be 'activated' and 'mobilized' for FIAT, rather than just Jeep(+Maserati+Ferrari)? Nothing before mid-2017, one feels sure, though. Ah well.
    Murphy_Fiat likes this.
  4. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    1,900
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    Who said Fiat is subsidising the dealers. The tier system of the dealer margins is also taken out and the old standard % thing is back. Dont be surprised if more dealers shut shop. The reason I told Fiat's management in India is taking wrong decisions time and again is after discussing it thoroughly with both Fiat folks and the dealership too.

    There is no point writing long posts about Fiat doing stuff in India. A simple question will you buy Agea/Tipo with D segment car prices say above 20 lakhs? That's how poor their thought process is.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
    PradeepM likes this.
  5. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,449
    delhi ncr
    @nkrishnap

    That's what i was told by the OWNER of a delhi ncr dealership, in particular (perhaps selectively) payments to a degree towards land-rents.

    Are you saying they're planning on the Aegea, rather than the Grand Sienna, and at d-segment prices? It is a d-segment car in some respects but at c-segment prices: more like 12-14 lakhs to have any chance of sales. That is if fully-localized, rather than say ckd or cbu like its competitor-in-Europe, the Skoda Rapid/Indian Octavia.

    From your discussions, what are the upcoming/recent/new 'poor decisions'? If any, before 2017? Are they just passing time and plan on shutting shop eventually say in 2017/2018? Are they still saying they will bring the new Punto, new grand Sienna and a new Avventura, as the original plan said 2 years ago? If not, what? Nothing before 2017, that much has seemed very clear for the last year probably. Don't know if you're willing or able to reveal anything about your discussions.

    thanks!
  6. manjunathkl

    manjunathkl Amatore

    Messages:
    61
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.4
    1.6 MJD is already running in Suzuki S-Cross. Fiat cannot survive without selling engines. I know it is a strategic blunder, but it is survival for Fiat.
  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,449
    delhi ncr
    Sorry for the double post but:

    I guess IF they're going to be doing anything new and standout in India with any seriousness for the FIAT brand (beyond the all-new Punto etc, if that) rather than just the JEEP one, it will HAVE TO hinge on exports first, and for-India only second.

    In which case, yes i can see myself paying say 18 lakhs for the euro-spec Aegea hatch in crossover form with a ddct t-jet 145 bhp? And very definitely for the Renegade or 500X, maybe even 20 lakhs! While it is made for mostly for exports to export-sepcs.

    A much-smaller-dealer-body but with 'premium', higher-usp models (like the Tipo or the 500L or even the 500X/Renegade) made more for exports IS a strategy with a chance of success and viability/sustainability, imo, rather than the no-hope new Punto/new Linea etc mass market one with 100+- dealers to support, too. Exactly like Skoda or soon VW too will be positioned?

    Let's see.

    @nkrishnap
  8. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    1,900
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    Agea is a budget sedan. No one in their right mind will pay 20 lakhs for it no matter what is on offer.
    prabhjot and adisrini1103 like this.
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,449
    delhi ncr
    It will not be a budget sedan by any means in India but in Europe it is, BUT only because of its low-cost manufacturing base in Turkey. It IS meant as a 'tweener': a sedan that competes against the Skoda Rapid/Indian Octavia (itself a budget-car relative to equivalent Fords and Peugeots and VWs) BUT at lower prices. It is a high-quality yet economical stylish family-sedan/hatch, straddling the european c and d-segments size and quality-wise but not price-wise. The hatch (and/or crossover version) will go up against the Golf and Ford Focus, again though at lower prices.

    And so yeah, if they reduce the number of dealers in India and offer such Euro-spec models only, and all the new euro models like the 500l and 500x too sit on the same basic 'platform' as the Aegea/Tipo, as do the Renegade and the to-be-made-in-India Jeep c-suv, relying on exports for scale-economies, such a strategy seems to me more viable and sustainable financially and much-less risky than the IMO no-hoper one of trying to compete with Maruti, Hyundai, Honda, Tata and Mahindra head-on in the mass market (where the Punto and Linea currently sit) while supporting 100-120+ dealers, or rather failing to or not-being-given-a-chance-to by the marketplace. Similar story for Skoda- or VW-in-India.

    Delaers are shutting down in large numbers for so many brands (from Nissan to Tata to Chevy: Gurgaon), FIAT will no doubt see some more of that too, which is fine and sensible if they do indeed decide to, like Skoda, only offer more 'premium-within-mass' type, euro-spec models.

    But yeah 20 lakhs, if that is what you heard from them, is absurd for say the Tipo sedan, and that too in a dwindling segment for large-ish sedans, except for the JEEP c-suv which can even go as high as the Fortuner in price. More like 13-18 lakhs for such models (Tipo sedan and crossover-hatch, say, or the 500L or Renegade)?

    @nkrishnap

    We'll see. There's no sales-redemption for FIAT that is for sure, either way, in India, foresseably, which is why export-demand is the only real hope for FIAT's continuing viability in India. Again, it is a similar story with Ford, VW, Nissan and Chevy too!
  10. adisrini1103

    adisrini1103 Amatore

    Messages:
    243
    Coimbatore
    Linea 1.3
    Aegea and 500x are the most perfect models for fiat to bring to India right now today, both should stay below 15L OTR for India. This is a price sensitive market for normal cars.
    Bring these cars under Audi at a price of 20+ L it will sell. But it will be under the fiat name

    But I'd say FIAT already lost the perfect timing for those two cars.
    prabhjot likes this.

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