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Fiat India - Future Plans

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    ^ can you please send me the link where Toyota is making money by exports?
    Earlier I have shared the link about Toyota profits and they are getting profits in our market there is no point of exports and I don't think they are exporting from here they have one more plant in Thailand.
    I don't believe that as the engine construction is going to million of dollars if it so then Honda and other manufacturers would have brought the Mjd instead of creating from the scratch. The point of expenditure in engine manufacturing is a one time huge investment then the money for upgrading is less.
    And engine manufacturing is not a rocket science if Tata is able to get the Turbo petrol engine then Suzuki have the capabilities to make.
    Suzuki have the JV with Volkswagen but nothing came as fruitful and I have doubt of JV with Fiat because I have never heard in other forums/news.
    Raj_pol likes this.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    Your own link showed that for the previous 3 years Toyota-Kirloskar were making losses.

    What did they do to alleviate that? They started exporting the Etios from here, a car that to the best of my knowledge, is an India-special, made only-in-India car. I mentioned that in a post on the Brazilian sales FCA figures for May 2015, last week. I think something like 2000+/- a month for many months now, just in brazil alone? It is also exported to S Africa and other LatAm countries too, all from India.

    The point about exports being the only financial lifeline for all firms other than MS, HY....and FCA is a commonplace truth among analysts and business-economics commentators.

    Even Nissan, which is a humungous exporter, is profitable, but NOT if you look at domestic market investments and sales. Last time I checked even Ford is in big losses, EVEN with the huge Ecosprt exports. etc.

    FCA will, within a couple of years, be a major exporter of high-value Jeeps and/or all-new Fiats, to add to their already unique, and uniquely successful, business model of partnering Tata and Maruti Suzuki.

    btw, Honda is globally and also in India a loss making firm that has just seen its ceo sacked, precisely for wasteful, financially damaging, and strategically wrong projects and strategies like the all-aluminium 1.6 diesel.

    See the suv-s from Maruti Suzuki are already released in Europe, with additional ones coming. They're ALL Fiat mjd-based for most of their sales there. So Maruti Suzuki are not about to switch to any other diesel (that's what VW wanted them to do, but Suzuki insisted on sticking with Fiat's mjd-s) for at least the 5 years it will take for these models (S Cross, X Alpha, Vitara, big hatchback) to complete their life cycle. Team-bhp had a long-running, and ridiculous-rumour based thread title on the S Cross claiming that Maruti would use a Peugeot engine instead of the mjd. Well, we now know the reality.

    If FCA gets the VW stake in Suzuki (post arbitration award), a widely acknowledged probability....so much the better!

    You may find it perversely slow, incompetent etc, BUT there is a very plausible, successful method to FCA's madness in India, under Marchionne over the last 2 years (since the brand and dealer re-launch)!

    Other than with some dealers, like the one you've been suffering lately.
  3. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Superiore

    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot Even if all that you say is correct (I disagree), Fiat still does not have any decently selling models planned for India. Among the cars that they are planning to bring the only one with slight possibility of numbers if priced correctly is the Grand Cherokee. The jeep will not sell - one it is not a looker and two more importantly the name has been spoiled by the Mahindra Jeeps in use in India.

    So their numbers will still be like what maybe 1500 cars a month. If this continues most showrooms barring few will shut down and people will stop buying Fiat's (the few who did) for lack of support. So how is this a plan for India? Irrespective of whatever you export and how many engines you sell, you also need to have a presence in terms of cars in India.

    p.s. If Abarth sells 1500 a month, I promise I will run in my chaddi from Electronic City To MG road and post a video of the same here. It will not.
  4. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    ^ Raj You made my day ROFL :hilarious:
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  5. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    That is the VERY reason they want to export and share costs with tata and, indirectly, through Maruti.

    Every Jeep sold (the Indian-built C-SUV @ 20-25 lakhs will be Grand Cherokee-like so by your logic it should sell+the very funky edgy sleek Cherokee+the Grand Cherokee+maybe the Renegade? should sell here at the rate of 50 a month, togeher, at a very low minimum) will yield profits for FCA and dealers 5-20 times what an Evo/Linea/Avventura do, so...

    You'll be surprised how many wrangler rubicons they'll sell in Dilli-Punjab-Haryana-UP! Maybe 10 a month @ 35+ lakhs each. You have perhaps never seen a Wrangler 4-door, Unlimited in the flesh: think Hummer. You'll change your mind about jeep's prospects very quickly.

    Besides they'll be assembling mos/all the models: low cost, high profits. Not to mention exports of the C-Suv, tidy profits there too, given cost-sharing with the Tata SUV-s.

    Many Fiat dealers in the biggest cities need to be shut down: they're simply unviable, imo.

    Abarth t-jet-s will add maybe 20-50 to monthly sales, at best a 100.

    That's just the economics of it in India: there's nothing to be done, the market forces these numbers and these prices on Fiats. Other than better and more marketing, but even that has poor sales yields for most firms, let alone Fiat.

    Wait for end 2016, when the all-new Avventura+Punto+Grand Sienna come.

    They won't sell well either, better hopefully but not enough for those of us who buy cars less and sales-figures more. And no there's no way your 500X priced as a Fiat here at say 14-16 lakhs would sell well either.

    As long as Fiat/FCA's in the black in India: frankly, i couldn't care less how few or many they sell. I am OK with even just 2 decent FASS+dealers in all of Delhi NCR, for eg, rather than the current 6+1.

    Go e-commerce in a big way is what I'd advocate for a destimed-to-be-tiny-Fiat in India. Keep and improve the FASS, but shut down many showrooms. In fact, outsource ASS too in select places, to branded third parties like Bosch or Mahindra First Choice.

    And UNLESS they're sure of guaranteed export sales for the all-new 2017 Fiats, they should maybe not launch them at all, and instead convert themselves into a purely ckd, Mini-like boutique operation in the biggest cities. Rely on the Tata JV and supplies of engines+amt-s to Maruti for handsome and rare profits from the Indian mass market.

    I guess India will from now on be more of a very-profitable export and Tata-JV manufacturing base etc than a retail-sales market for Fiat, since that's the only bankable way to make money here, as the experiences of Nissan, Ford, Renault and VW have shown.

    There are probably strong export plans for every all-new Fiat model starting with the 'new Avventura', possibly even back to Europe where Fiats will soon stop being made in Italy at all, so I guess those all-new models will come. Precisely DESPITE their dull/limited sales prospects in this market.

    Exports will allow us to get the models in the first place, and the Tata JV etc enable them to be well-priced because of economies of scale, and of class leading virtues.

    They get to make money, and we get to enjoy the great cars at terrific VFM. Just like now, actually.

    What's not to like?:D
  6. Abh1nav

    Abh1nav Timido

    New Delhi
    I don't know if this is the right thread to post this, but since we're talking about Fiat's future, here it goes:

    Went to Tuli Fiat in North Delhi for the 3rd free service of my Fiat Punto, and was shocked to learn that the dealership has been closed and the service center too is closing down on by 1st July.

    It's apparently going to be a Tata dealership now.

    I spoke to the service manager there for the reason for dealership's closure and he told me that there was no business (not surprising), however, I could make out that he was quite unhappy with Fiat's attitude towards its dealers.

    He told me that Fiat doesn't support the dealership at all, and moreover was doing nothing to improve its image / presence in the market. He mentioned how Maruti Swift sells in good numbers, just because of people's view about Maruti, and how Fiat was doing nothing of that sort to be able to sell more.

    This felt quite bad at a personal level too, as I bought Punto from Tuli Fiat as they were quite close to my home, and servicing would be easy. During each of the three services, the folks there were quite helpful and made me question as to why people would think the way they do about Fiat A.S.S. I think now I know!

    With Tuli Fiat's closure, the only good option for people who want to get their Fiat's serviced in Delhi is Kashyap Fiat. Even the service manager at Tuli Motors advised me to take my car to them in case I need to get any major work done in the future!

  7. sandipan_r15

    sandipan_r15 Superiore

    Grande Punto 1.3
    @Abh1nav felt really sad after reading your post.
    FIAT is so lethargic in marketing their products.FORD has already started advting about the upcoming ASPIRE in the local news papers whereas there has not been a single advt for AVVENTURA in the local dailys till date.
    prabhjot likes this.
  8. Abh1nav

    Abh1nav Timido

    New Delhi
    I was feeling really bad too, for the chaps who work at Tuli Fiat. At Tuli, the mechanics always came around as very knowledgeable and quite dedicated to their work. Always eager to help out with even the tiniest of issues.

    Even today, when I told them that I had an issue with front power windows making noise, initially they told me that the motor would be replaced and since its a warranty claim, it needs to be carried out at some other service center (since they are closing), but anyhow, they fixed that themselves with some tweaking!

    All I can say is, Tata is going to get a good dealership in Delhi and its Fiat's loss!
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    Hi. Don't worry, there are 2/3 consistently good (although i can't sayfor certain that Tuli was poorer) FASS in Delhi NCR. Kashyap, and DRS Motors Faridabad, and DRS Gurgaon. There are 3 Fiats currently in our family, and both my old Dad and I have been happy with this last.

    The thing just is, I am afraid, as I have posted in the past, Delhi NCR just cannot suport 6/7 FASS: there just isn't enough demand/sales for that. 3/4 financially sturdier ones is better, and is what Fiat should've done in the first place.

    Tuli you found good from your limited experience with them, but Torque Gurgaon, Thrust Motors (same owners) and Oberoi Noida have seen frequent and considerable dissatisfaction from many.

    Uncommited/etc owners and managers?

    As far as Fiat's "support" goes: it is what it is. They've been selling an average of 600-800 cars a month on average all-India for several years now, with little deviation! New model (Avventura) or advertizing or not.

    I recently encountered a huge Avventura-plugging billboard on the MG road to Delhi. Also, a striking informative NEW fullpage ad for the Evo in a magazine....so ad or no ad Fiat's strike rate hardly seems to shift beyond 800 a month.

    So relax: there are so many Fiats, new and old, on Delhi ncr's roads by now, so ASS centre business for the remaining good(?) dealers and centres will be assured. That's how I see it. Expect at least 1 more shutting-down of a dealer+Fass in Delhi ncr.

    I personally don't care or worry, since am betting that makes the business of the remaining ones healthier, financially. You shouldn't either, IMO: it may need a longer trip out to a FASS once or twice a year, but IF the quality of work remains ggood and trustworthy enough, it beats having a FASS right in one's 'colony'.

    Let's see about sales. Marketing has seen some improvement and increase recently, though getting past the long term trend sales rate of 600-800 or perhaps at best a 1000 every month once the t-jet Evo and Avventura arrive in August, remains unlikely IMO.


    MODS: please delete or shift if deemed OT. thanks
  10. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Grande Punto 1.3

    You are absolutely correct regarding the design and implementation time. A headlamp which is designed today will take minimum 10 years to come in European market but in Indian market it might come next day because in India Testing is done on Indian consumer and with consumers money. Just try to get hold of some POLO which was launched way back when VW debuted in India. See the back light quality and see of the current car you will understand what I am saying.
    Vista 7155 is absolutely right once suzuki gets the boost it will definately give an attempt at a bigger engine and it will pass because we Indians will make it a hit. There are very few who know what to buy in a car and assess what you are getting for the money paid rest maximum are KITNA DETI HAI. If I am incorrect then how come Honda was able to sell 1L amaze with that engine. I think FCA should wake up
    prabhjot likes this.

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