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Fiat India - Future Plans

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Anup

    Anup Regolare

    Messages:
    303
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Grande Punto 1.3
    ofcourse the new upcoming model of a SUV to be launched by Tata looks pretty much like the Freemont from rear angle.
    prabhjot likes this.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,453
    delhi ncr
    @Anup

    Good catch. I just posted saying the Bolt rear (esp tail-lamps) looks 'inspired by' the Fiat 500. Of course the Freemont is actually a pre-merger Dodge basic design, the Journey. I guess it's one of the pioneering designs for the MPV-yet-SUV look that is now getting accepted across even the most premium brands. And which is what Tata is attempting with the Hexa? Even the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Cherokee have a Journey/Freemont-style tail-light size+shape+location.
  3. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    497
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot Whatever you have mentioned is for Tata. I still do not see how Fiat would benefit. My fear is that these competitors (including Suzuki) will use the parts for all it is worth and once they start manufacturing their own they will ditch Fiat who by then would have lost all in India.

    See, you really have to understand that marketing and sales are based on perception - like the old uncles who still say that the Sony TV is better, the dudes who think Apple has a faster processor or most people who think processed food is healthy.

    Now, to create a healthy perception, you have to create stories that the market likes/wants to believe and you should have a differentiating point. So saying that the car will ride better when driven at 140 km/hr in a twisty is a joke because such places rarely if any exist in India. However, if you say you have an engine that provides 40KM/L, that is a reality that works anywhere in India. Similarly, if you bring let us say the 1.6 MJD after all the other car manufacturers have launched where is the differentiating point. No one cares about a body so concentrating on creating a tank does not work.

    As I have mentioned before the flavor of the season is compact SUV's. So what we need is a plethora of them. 2 things that Fiat needs - 1. understand the pulse of the nation 2. move extremely fast
    vista7155 likes this.
  4. Ichimaru

    Ichimaru Regolare

    Messages:
    376
    Gurgaon, India
    @Raj_pol

    Let me tell you just one benefit (and perhaps the most important one) of FIAT selling engines and sharing the manufacturing plant with TATA...FIAT India is a profit making company in India! Isn't that why all companies are into business?

    Except, Honda, GM, Ford and even the mighty Toyota are in losses.
    prabhjot likes this.
  5. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    Messages:
    374
    Pune
    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    I doubt the losses for Toyota, please see how Innova and Fortuner are priced, almost 5 -7 lakhs overpriced.
    how come they incur losses ????
  6. Ichimaru

    Ichimaru Regolare

    Messages:
    376
    Gurgaon, India
  7. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    Messages:
    313
    bangalore
    Raj_pol likes this.
  8. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    497
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @Ichimaru You are right and companies exist to make profits and that is the reason why Fiat should look in the long term. In the long term they cannot survive as just an engine maker. Laugh all you want but Suzuki has created its first engine - badly made maybe but it is a beginning and the Celerio diesel will be obviously a hit.

    4 years down the line once Suzuki starts making it's own engines then suddenly they will crash.
    dadasaheb and vista7155 like this.
  9. vista7155

    vista7155 Regolare

    Messages:
    313
    bangalore
    Raj you are absolutely correct and if Suzuki tastes medium sucess with that engine then it will boost their confidence and I am 100% sure they will come up with better engine because everyone looks for profit and search for cost savings and with the new engine, royalty for Fiat will be saved.
    Today or later this is going to happen and Fiat will be in deep trouble at the movement Suzuki is a cash cow.
    Suppose if we consider still Suzuki take transmission from fiat it will not be equal to the royalty they are getting now.
    The 2nd part JV with Tata we all know how Tata is struggling in the sales and they are not in the league of Suzuki for sales.
    So Fiat has to wake up from the coma inorder to breathe after 3 years.
    Anyhow they have 3 years contract with Suzuki for engine supply and after that no body know what is going to happen.
    By the way if we see the engine consumption by Suzuki as of today's 5.5 lakhs per annum and this figure will go up once S Cross is released.
    So Suzuki think tanks will definitely look for royalty savings and if they want to build the engine it can be done in 3years
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
    dadasaheb likes this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,453
    delhi ncr
    @vista7155 @Raj_pol

    Please understand the economics of the car business, anywhere but esp in India. It costs millions of dollars to even design, test and validate a new bumper + air intakes, let alone a new diesel engine? It will cost Suzuki hundreds of millions of dollars to even come up with a good prototype, let alone one that can meet performance, mileage AND emmissions norms in India and Europe, the only major diesel markets in the world.

    Suzuki gets the world's best small diesels (the mjd-s) both here and in Europe at a cut price, because FiatPowerTrain has huge economies of scale. The royalties are a minor cost in comparison. There isn't the slightest chance of Suzuki developing their own diesel engines, they only ever have been developing the 2-cylinder 800cc one for use on their LCV mainly.....as long as they get to deploy their own DDis badge for the FPT engine. Suzuki is deepening its synergy with Fiat, soaring demand for the mjd-s, amt JV with Magneti Marelli....and with a bigger 'deal' to come?

    It is ONLY because of the cooperation with tata and maruti that Fiat is and will, on the new Fiats and Jeeps, be able to offer class-leading engineering and build at such great prices. The price of the FiatAbarth Punto Evo will, like with the Linea t-jet, be astoundingly competitive. Only with economies of scale can one meet cost+price targets, and hope to turn a profit on sales.

    The more Tata and Fiat integrate (JV+1.3 mjd+amt-s+transmissions+1.6 and 2litre mjds+platform sharing for the new Punto/Grand Sienna with the next-gen Bolt, Zest, Manza, MM components on Tata-s, COMAU robotsetc installed in ranjangaon.....) the more and BETTER and cheaper Fiats and Jeeps we can get at great prices. And the better the export profits for Fiat and Jeep (as well as Tata).

    Keep watching: the Abarth 500 is the beginning of great stuff, from terrific Tata SUVs to one or two localized and one or two ckd assembled, very price-competitive, export-centric Jeeps to the all-new Avventura CUV, the all-new Punto, the Grand Sienna by end 2017/2018.

    No slower than the following firms: Skoda, Toyota, VW, Renault, Nissan.

    A firm with low market-enforced, brand-weakness-caused pricing like Fiat can only invest on such a basis, not in the gung-ho manner that the other firms have tried and only (other than via exports) made losses.

    Honda has lost, and continues to lose money in India: it will take them years of these booming sales to recoup a single yen/rupee. Toyota and Nissan are profitable only with exports, their domestic operations lose money, same's true of Ford, and so on.

    FCA under a Marchionne who has done the US merger and brand-revival-and-boom thing, is now turning attention and capital towards China and India, and of course Europe with Alfa, 500X, Aegea sedan+hatch, etc. Also, merger-type 'deals' in which India and China will figure centrally, imo.

    I see very good stuff happening with Fiat and Jeep here, just let's hold on till the schedule they laid out in their plan 1 years ago, plays out: the all-new stuff from brands, localized, begins only in 2016 through 2017/18. Sales may not be soaringly great but there's a good chance they'll be decent, and profitable/therefore-sustainable. We'll see.

    "Der aaye par durust aaye", and meanwhile made tidy little profits throughout the 'deri'?:p Not so bad, at all, and I got to buy a Linea t-jet emotion for 9 lakhs or rather less, imagine that, what's to complain about?

    Other than about some dealers, and of course the complaints and the pain (for now) OF the dealers?

    Speed is NOT of the essence for a profitable company like FCA India, getting its products, their manufacturing quality and their costing/pricing right IS. For which both Tata and Maruti are key or rather essential partners.

    PS: Now FCA-Tata, about that 500X that is sadly NOT in your announced plan till 2018....and is not part of this new SUV assembly line you guys are setting up,apparently......!:sour::p

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