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Fiat India - Future Plans

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. nibedk

    nibedk Regolare

    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    @prabhjot . Buddy tell us something new. Your points to defend Fiat has been the same since you have joined the forum. I am fine when you say that you do such so that there is some balance restored as everyone else seems to be against Fiat. But don't you think everyone here is either a Fiat owner or a Fiat enthusiast. Whatever you say to defend Fiat doesn't change the fact that Fiat doesn't sell in India. That means every other manufacturer is doing something better and that's why are selling more cars. You keep mentioning that anyone whoz buying MS OR HY OR TY OR HO is nothing but a part of herd. What have you got to say about those who get the Fords , the VWs and the Skoda's. And people get more Skoda's in a month than Fiats whose reputation is as bad as Fiats if not any worse. I as a consumer like what Fiat provides me an they fulfill my tastes as a individual. But 3 years down the line when I plan to upgrade I hope Fiat does something to increase its market share. Do you think any consumer is going to listen to what you or any other enthusiast has to say or write. And please irrespective of what you think on others buying choices do not demean others by branding them a part of herd. I know of people who have bought other cars after evaluating all cars including Fiats. The reason is all the same. Not much choices, ASS support in their cities or town, horror stories about Fiat and dealership behavior or enthusiasm etc.
    kgramesh, drknaresh and dadasaheb like this.
  2. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    Fiat has been plain and simple, LAZY. @prabhjot brings out all the correct positive points about Fiat vs the rest, but lets not ignore this basic fact. When Fiat launched Uno and later Palio, there was virtually no competitor to Maruti Suzuki other than a very fledgling Hyundai. Fiat was in a position to capture the position of Hyundai today. But they messed up badly. And have been lazy about correcting things (not necessarily product-related, but some of it there too). Now, it appears that Fiat Chrysler Inc/Spa simply dont care about the India market, in fact Fiat simply doesnt care about European mass market either !

    So things have gone beyond even the lazy bit. The Marutis and Hyundais have a huge stake in the India market because they see their potential and the India numbers are largely tied to their global ambitions. Not so for Toyota, VW/Skoda, Renault-Nissan or even Ford to that extent, although their top brass does make the right noises about India from time to time . As for Fiat, it doesnt see anything beyond happily supplying MJDs en masse and maintaining a token automobile presence in metro/Class A towns.
    PradeepM, prabhjot, Raj_pol and 2 others like this.
  3. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot Dude, do you realize putting false beliefs just because you like a brand is also classic herd mentality. I would suggest a wonderful book on marketing but then already you are sold. I do not reply to your threads now because you cannot argue without facts. You have to stop insulting my intelligence by saying I follow the herd. I do not. I follow number, statistics and so on which is there for all to see. Maybe sir, you are like an Apple Fan boy - at least their product sells, FIAT does not.





    I can put a 100 lists but that would be a waste of time. You would still copy paste the same lines.

    Be happy with what you think. I will try not to get into an internet fight :)
    vista7155 and drknaresh like this.
  4. avithe1

    avithe1 Amatore

    (Mira Rd) Thane.
    Linea 1.3
    Let FIAT think about their future plans (as per the title of the thread).
    Lets not get behind someone because s/he is an die hard FIAT fan. You can always ignore/skip "xyz" users posts if you don't believe in his/her points or are bored with the same points(just like I do).

    I guess this year its only TJet Punto and Avventura. Abarth is somewhere in dark.
    Also there is no idea about the launch dates for TJet Punto and Avventura, so its just wait and watch.
    nbvcrao, Mabams1826 and dadasaheb like this.
  5. gopscreative

    gopscreative Amatore

    Recently I had an vacation to India and got my hands on beloved Punto after driving so many gasoline POTs' in US. It was sweet music to my ears to hear diesel clatter.. I wanted to get tires upgrade on my Active and planned of getting Linea rims as my friend who owns the car now, couldn't afford Alloys.. Now which ever Fiat service gets my query , their reply is "NO STOCK SIR!!, We need at least 2 weeks to get it!!"..
    If people have to wait 2 weeks to get rims, I definitely doubt things have improved on spare parts issue that too in a city like Bengaluru which holds a upper hand for FIAT sales...
    If this kind of attitude or unavailability of service or spare parts from FIAT continue, their reputation is getting no better and future looks much bleak than now!!

    Even in US Fiat-Chrysler sales are no better.. people who buy entry level compact-midsize or full size sedans still opt out for Toyotas,Hondas, Nissans or Hyundais.... its a mystery to understand what FIAT is really achieving by neglecting sales in India, which is where they have an opportunity for all their experiments!!
    vista7155, dadasaheb and Raj_pol like this.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    I only pointed out that the quality/reliability gap between the Japanese and the Korean and the EuroAmerican ones has long since closed down, globally. Rather than pick up fragments from the net, or constantly mis-ascribe causes for Fiat's Indian sales struggles it would help if you read up on J D Power's survey methodology, their in depth surveys (on their Indian website) of the Indian car buyer, etc.

    Interestingly, Hyundai's are rated as highly unreliable in the US, but celebrated here. VW is rated as having dubious reliability both in the US and in India, but fare superbly in European surveys. Even Volvo is rated by J D Power surveys as being sub-par reliability-wise in the US, which is funny indeed since Volvo is a bye-word for quality/reliability in Europe and increasingly here in India.

    Still, they do the 'scientific' research, so there's still no better guide....their surveys over the last many years shows a drastic closing of the quality/reliability gap, even as almost everyone improved in absolute terms.

    Fiat under Marchionne (since the 500 and the European Punto, and the new Panda) and later C/D/Jeep/Ram have also greatly upped the quality/reliability levels. e.g., Most negative 'problems' reported on US Fiats/Jeep etc have more to do with people disliking the way a small turbo-petrol has some lag, or the way the twin-clutch autobox shifts than with any actual systematic 'quality/reliability' issues.

    Fiats (and Tata and VW and Ford...) do NOT have a product/build quality/reliability 'issue' in India! But are seen and perceived to by the majority. They have a slight sales/dealer-process 'problem', perhaps. They have much less of a / no spares/ASS 'problem' nowadays.

    But Fiat sales are still dipping badly: the products are still good-to-great, are superbly VFM, etc as we know, and so if the above is true it just follows that the majority of the market (most of whom are herding-biased, all experts agree, from EMMAAA to J D Power, this has nothing to do with being a fan or votary of Fiat) just will not touch a Fiat, whatever the truth about the cars, their dealers, their ASS support, their quality/reliability.

    Fiat's problems in India are of their own making (in the PAST), by now the market is closed/hostile to them. It has nothing to do with 'reliability', 'quality', 'equipment levels', 'pricing', 'engine+gearbox performance', though it has a bit to do with the quantity and nature of their advertizing (though J D Power claims that most Indian car buyers do NOT base purchase decisions on brand-building ads AT ALL).

    Negative perceptions have encrusted, and refuse to shift.

    Sure projector headlamps and touchscreens etc are missing! But if we think that'll persuade anyone at all in this marketplace (where even knowing folk often chicken out of buying even VW or Tata let alone Fiat, out of resale value and other such considerations that depend on other, non-knowing folks' opinions)....?!

    @acechip is right, Fiat has been lazy in India, though I'd prefer saying timid/cautious/risk-averse in what they know to be a very very difficult, perhaps impossible?, market for (car companies like) them.

    They should 'go niche' and 'go premium', else there's no hope, given the mindsets and brand-equities prevalent here in this car baazar. Even if they were, once upon a time, responsible for the poor state their beautiful Indo-Italian brand is by-now in.


    FCA does not offer any entry level sedan at all, in the US. But the Chrysler 200 and now the Dodge Dart is selling very well, as do all the niche/Americana-style big beefy sedans, the Dodge Charger and the Chrysler 300. And of course the trucks and SUVs are selling hand-over-fist. Your post betrays a lack of knowledge of both the American market, its trends (where FCA is in its 60th continuous month of sales and marketshare gains, the most by any firm, including Toyota or GM or Ford, let alone Hyundai), and the ASS+spares scene with Fiat India these days. Misperceptions and prejudices die hard, even on TeamFiat, hunh ?! :)
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
  7. gopscreative

    gopscreative Amatore

    FCA does not offer any entry level sedan at all, in the US. But the Chrysler 200 and now the Dodge Dart is selling very well, as do all the niche/Americana-style big beefy sedans, the Dodge Charger and the Chrysler 300. And of course the trucks and SUVs are selling hand-over-fist. Your post betrays a lack of knowledge of both the American market, its trends (where FCA is in its 60th continuous month of sales and marketshare gains, the most by any firm, including Toyota or GM or Ford, let alone Hyundai), and the ASS+spares scene with Fiat India these days. Misperceptions and prejudices die hard, even on TeamFiat, hunh ?! :)[/QUOTE]
    @prabhjot ,
    Please refer this sales document for the year 2014.Just see how Chrysler 200 fares with camrys, altimas, accords, fusions or even sonatas.. And let me tell you , most of 200s' are sold for rental fleet...



    FCA doesn't even get its name mentioned in the %share analysis and is classified as others. I am sorry buddy, you need to go through some sales reports and actual numbers. And we see people's mentality here. If TFI members are interested , just configure a Chrysler or Dodge on Truecar.com and see the whopping discounts thrown away, which indicates the sales trend... Just by selling some niche hellcat chargers , they aren't going to increase their market share!!
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 19, 2015 ---
    A nice article about JD power survey..Please have a look which shows where FCA stands...Hyundai commands a better score in US compared to FCA!!

    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
    dadasaheb and vista7155 like this.
  8. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    Toyota Camry, Honda Accord (and to a lesser extent the Nissan Altima) are the "holy cows" of the automotive world especially in the USA . They are brands by themselves. You dont have to attach a T or an H letter to talk about a Camry/Accord. So the comparison of any "American domestic" brand with them is a bit unfair.

    When I was in the US not so long ago, no one would touch a Ford midsize sedan(much less a Chrysler/ GM) by a bargepole. I know people who bought Subarus and Mazdas, even Hyundai's. And Camrys/Accords had the least discounts available.

    I dont think Fiat ever had (and ever will) produce such iconic "mass market" cars ever. Thats why perhaps they are going "niche" on a global basis.
    prabhjot, dadasaheb and asimpleson like this.
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    You ought really to be aware that they launched an all-new, and very outstanding Chrysler 200 in the middle of 2014. THAT is the car that is selling very well. Your stats are of the old old Chrysler 200, older than the Marchionne/Fiat acquisition of ChryslerD/J/R.

    Chrysler and Dodge have for many many years not been a major player in the mass car-appliance segment dominated by Honda and Toyota and Nissan. But the Dodge Dart and the new Chrysler 200 are doing very well, and picking up significant marketshare in a segment where the Japanese dominate.

    FCA has been the fastest growing car company in the US for 5 years! By far. It far outsells Hyundai, Nissan, and Honda, and is in fact almost equal in sales to Toyota.

    FCA has many different brands and many different sub-brands. Almost all of them have a huge following/heritage/history (Charger, challenger, Wrangler, 300 : taken together they make FCA is most successful car company in the US market (under Marchionne's magic, of course!) in terms of growth and marketshare gains over the last 4-5 years. As a result FCA is the world's 6 or 7th largest automotive firm by sales.

    So your claims about FiatChrysler in the US are just plain false, I am afraid.

    The interesting questions from your mistaken point about FCA in the US, though, are:

    How come a company all of whose brands had/have huge negative legacy issues (from Jeep to Fiat, from 'quality' to 'dealers') in the US when Marchionne took control in 2008/9, has achieved industry best-by-far absolute and marketshare growth, across all segments and vehicle types under Fiat/Marchionne?

    How come a similar 'turn-around' (remember Fiat India has been profitable for many years, thanks to engine sales etc, unlike the dead/bankrupt brands Marchionne took over in 2009 in the US) is elusive, and perhaps, impossible, in India for 'Fiat'?

    Is that a supply-side issue (FCA products, their specs, their prices, their equipment levels, their marketing...) OR is the BINDING CONSTRAINT on the 'demand side' i.e., the fact that the Indian marketplace is closed-minded and incorrigible and risk-averse, with the opposite being true of the American one, on average?
    VIJENDRA SINGH likes this.


    Linea T-Jet
    Bro, I hope when you bought your car, you purchased it regardless of sales. I believe there were features or attributes of the vehicle which you knew were above those gimmicks (which influence most of our fellow countrymen) in other car of respective segment. I bought a FIAT because they gave the best one can have for the price. A person's safety doesn't depend whether his OVRMS are auto fold or how high mileage the vehicle offers but it depend how well the vehicle behaves on road, the degree of effectiveness of brake & of course the structural rigidity. These factors will always be above those gimmicks as nothing is more precious than a life. Moreover buddy the sales didn't have dropped to zero yet thus awareness is on its way. Let us not get dishearten because of low sales no. rather enjoy the blissful drive our beloved FIAT offer. Let us not bash FIAT for being honest in what they offer. Peace.
    PradeepM likes this.

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