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Fiat India - Future Plans

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Ravi, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    their plans are like Govts in India Big at high level and very small implementation at ground level.
    like suppose 100 Rs came for one man's relief then only 5 Rs actually he gets.
    showcased Avventura was with 6 speed gear box ( and may be 1.6 engine ) projectors and what not and what did we actually got in Avvy ? even Tata Bolt and Zest come with Projectors, keep aside the Ciaz
    joeswatmail likes this.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    To the contrary: FCA is a very attractive potential merger/acquisition partner, especially for an Asian car firm because of: the Europe, America and LatAm-centric nature of its sales and manufacturing, and because of its premium brands (which are all doing rollickingly well, with Alfa restarted as well) which Asian firms lack completely, except Toyota/Lexus (slightly). FCA has in-house technology via Ferrari, Fiat Powertrain and Magneti Marelli, too, that is cutting edge and affordable, especially attractive to Japanese firms that have fallen somewhat behind the Europeans in the steeply ascending tech curve.

    M&A is for cost and risk sharing, and for entering new geographies, they have a financial logic first and formeost. Let's not forget that the gobal economy is in a long-term slowdown, evermore prone to crises, including India, Japan, ASEAN and China.

    FCA under Marchionne is undisputed as a merger/acquisition champion.

    And so: many analysts are betting on an FCA-Suzuki tie-up, as being very 'on the cards', while Tata Motors and Mazda are also mentioned repeatedly.

    I'd say there are indeed 'signs' of a deal cooking! Marchionne has come as close to saying so as he possibly can, more than once recently.

    A deal with Suzuki will be great for FCA profits and revenues in India, but whether the Fiat brand itself in India will benefit/gain health here....?

    I have, personally, many doubts about that as I feel that FCA will be best-advised to 'go Jeep' in India, which is indeed probably what will happen this year onwards. And avoid blowing up any more good money after bad on the Fiat brand in India for at least the next 2-3 years, with all-new models. This market is just not worth the severe financial risks, and is too deaf and dumb by now, in any case.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    @Raj_pol @dadasaheb

    The sarcasm about Fiat's 'plans', born it would seem of nothing more than the shame of not owning a car from a bestselling brand ('status'), are ENTIRELY misplaced.

    The fact is they have been pretty much sticking to their announced plan from 2 years ago. There was no all-new car promised till 2016. They said new dealers and FASS, new Linea/Punto + Avventura by end 2014...and they delivered (if we want to call it that) pretty much in the quantity and quality promised/expected.

    They never spoke of any other Fiat launches or variants by end 2014, so we can't hang them for our own projected plans-on-their-behalf, can we?

    They did not renege on the Jeep launch: they deffered it, and openly said so, more than a year ago.

    With very good reason too, given where the rupee went to, 68 to the dollar (if we remember) and the plummetting in economic confidence by consumers and investors in the Indian 'story', worsened by a rabid media and an insurgent opposition party leader (which succeeded, BOTH of them, in coming to power).

    Their plan for Fiat is pretty much a failure, that much is clear, but I wouldn't say that has much to do with what they did or did not do over the last 2 years. As I've been arguing: the structural character of this marketplace (culture) and of the Fiat-brand's position in it is, and has been proven to be, immovably/unchangeably hostile to Fiat India's efforts EVEN if they had launched an all-new car or two, a projector lamp or a 10 year warranty or a new gearbox/engine etc. Though, funny thing is, they have actually grown year-on-year 40%+ :p:blackeye: !

    Their all-of-us would say cautious and risk-averse/timid behaviour in this market even after the split with Tata sales/ASS has been proven to be quite justified, overall/all-told, which is why they have managed to make 200+crores of profits in the last FY, something pretty much everyone else would kill for, given the parlous states of the latter's India non-export balance-sheets (barring MS, HY and Mahindra).

    Now, hopefully, they and we will learn the only possible/viable/profitable lesson:

    (a) Jeep must be the emphasis from launch later in the year onwards, permanently, for exports as much as domestic Indian sales

    (b) Fiat can ONLY plausibly be a niche/specialist player, for which the emphasis must shift towards more powerful powertrains+automatics+Abarths, and:

    I'd personally advocate, a launch head-to-head against Mini (but priced a few lakh lower) of even-CBU cars from the 500 'line' of cars, including the 500L, 500X, and the upcoming Mazda Miata/Fiat Spider 124, with that line to retail NOT under the Fiat branded dealerships but from the new Jeep ones (in fact: they must be branded relatively independent of the label 'Fiat', as much as possible:().

    It is much too facile to tell them to wager the many hundreds of crores per car launch MS, HY or H or even Tata have spent in this same period, and this year, on new Fiats in this market. For those brands, it is not much of a wager at all (esp the east Asians)!

    I do dearly hope FCA's India story (which has its unique and successful Tata JV and engine supply model) overcomes whatever difficulties the Fiat brand faced/faces...

    ....by just merging or tying-up or equity-swapping with Mr. Osamu Suzuki/Maruti!:p

    That way we'd get to enjoy authentic Fiats like say the 500X (even if cbu), the Punto and Avventura t-jet, the Abarth Punto etc AND authentic Jeeps.....and FCA still, despite that, keeps 'forever and ever' making good money from India, unlike most other car firms.:cool:


    PS. That's the only meaningful money the whole VW group's making out of India, i suspect: the dividends and capital gains from their 19%+ stake in Suzuki, currently under dispute and arbitration.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  4. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Superiore

    Punto Evo 1.3

    Are you a criminal lawyer by profession? At your argumentative best you would probably be able to defend Rahul Gandhi as a far-sighted politician. :D

    1. We know they have promised no new models. It is like telling your parents I am going to score a zero in my next exam and since I have said that in advance shut up and be happy about it.

    2. They make all the money by selling engines. We know they make profits but not out of cars. Can you please keep away the engine profits. If you look at only the cars they would be bleeding money.

    3. Their is no market place hostility. Maruti failed twice at their sedan attempts before finally doing something decent with Ciaz. They learned and they improvised. Fiat ran away.

    4. Even worldwide the figures that you like to quote are mostly from their acquisitions, Jeep in US. The Fiat brand cars are not doing well. Check the top selling cars by volume in Europe. Fiat is somewhere at no 25. You have Ford's, Renault, VW, Skoda etc etc no Fiat at all

    5. After all your bragging Fiat cannot improve a gearbox - I think they are a ordinary car maker like any other that is failing miserably in India.

    There I just came back to this thread. damn
    dadasaheb and asimpleson like this.
  5. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Linea 1.3
    @Raj_pol, I don't know if its bad or good to defend Fiat, but we provide defense lawyers even to terrorists in our country. I don't know if one should feel happy or sad that one does ardently try to project things from Fiat's viewpoint, but it is good to know there is someone who helps keeps this balance here esp. when there are soo many critics of us.

    Agree otherwise to most of your arguments, just that Fiat is definitely a more than ordinary car maker, managing to deliver less (for those sales) in-spite of having good technology and technologists in their group. Call it a ordinary or poor market performer if you will.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  6. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    This thread needs to be revived if and only if Fiat introduces a new model (not variant) in the Indian car market. That would be 2016/2017/2018 - depending on any meeting of the FCA Inc board where they haul up some or the other VP of Asian markets "over the coals" for that tiny speck of "red" in the FCA balance/sales sheets- provided someone is alert enough during the Asia plans presentation. Otherwise it would be a pretty ho-hum affair.
    dadasaheb and prabhjot like this.
  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    Would you blame them if they...er, forgot that India was or supposedly could be a major market for sales?


    You know enough about the history of Fiat and the whole post-2008 crisis merger with Chrysler/Jeep etc and the whole recession in Europe, for me to have to be a 'criminal lawyer' on Fiat's behalf.

    In Europe, the Fiat brand is more powerful than in at least 20 years, it has managed to go 'premium within mass small-cars' thanks to segment leading cars like the Panda, 500, 500L and now (most people expect) the 500X. They offer no large hatches and no sedans, unlike VW, Ford, Opel, Renault and Peugeot-Citroen. Why? because they've been funding the American brands, rather than developing replacements for say the Punto, the Bravo and the Linea. Pretty astute, Marchionne is, he knows how stupid it is to try to compete and grow in a recessionary economy with over-capacity and high costs. The result is that these other firms have been losing money hand-over-fist, while he has managed to minimise the damage in europe, and capitalize (and how) on the rebound in North America, with hit after hit of new/all-new cars developed and branded/marketed by Fiat.

    Whether Fiat is ordinary or not as a bunch of cars is for you to judge: I'd say they are very extraordinary in the Indian mass market, very ordinary in Brazil and in Europe. In Europe though with the 500 series of models the Fiat brand has become extraordinarily ordinary, you might say, which is why they are segment leaders. Fiat basically offers just 4 models in Western Europe: the Panda, the 500, the 500l and the now the 500X, each of them is best or nearabouts in brand image, and in sales.

    They're business people, not criminals. They do NOT see the point in betting very much at all on the Indian market, which definitely is not even interested/listening, and gearboxes have nothing to do with it. They are right to not throw much money into India with new launches etc IF the idea will be to attract Hyundai-buyers. Hell, even some current Fiat owners hold Hyundai up as exemplars!

    They are a highly innovative, multi-brand firm that for economic and strategic reasons is more interested in say Jeep, Alfa and Maserati than in the Fiat brand. That is true all over the world, outside of LatAm.

    They are (see my earlier quote of Marchionne) now just as the European economy rebounds a bit making the profitable move in Europe too, with new cars in the 500 sub-brand, and with upcoming Punto+Bravo and Linea-replacements.

    They are clearly depreciating Fiat India, which is in too difficult a place (pun intended).

    That is just strategy, analysis and vision GIVEN scarce resources, given a very recessionary global economy, given high-cost hyper-competition and given their own preoccupation with their new American brands, a preoccupation that has paid off excellently/spectacularly.

    I think we don't have Fiat's well-being at heart when we keep whingeing about all-new models, and the low sales figures. It is their money to lose in India, not ours, whether you want to blame the public's misperceptions and automotive illiteracy (as I do) or things like gearboxes and missing projector lamps.

    I feel they are right to be diffident and inertial about the Indian market as far as the Fiat brand is concerned. I hope they will instead re-focus on the Jeep brand, something they are doing as a global policy in any case, outside of Europe (with the new 500L/X...)and LatAm.
    VIJENDRA SINGH and asimpleson like this.
  8. Mabams1826

    Mabams1826 Amatore

    Fiat Enthusiast
    Some more news for all of us

  9. fiat_fan

    fiat_fan Amatore

    Maruthi Celerio Diesel is going to be released on this April according to Media reports. If MS can make their own diesel engines, then Fiat's revenue from their engines as royalty will be in deep trouble.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    I had pointed to the fallacy of this fear: the ONLY diesel Suzuki has or is working on is this very small 3-cylinder diesel, meant to be cut-price, so that it can be deployed in their smallest cars and on their upcoming small lcv.

    They WILL continue to use the 1.3 mjd AND even add the use of the 1.6 mjd to it for MANY years yet, as they do in Europe, the only other diesel market besides India. ALL their new upcoming CUVs (3/4 of them) and their new 'premium' large hatchback WILL, like some of them already do in Europe, use either the 1.3 or the 1.6 mjd. These cars will be in the market for at least another 5-6 years, so.....

    The mjd is compelling value for Suzuki here and in Europe: it is still pretty much the best small-diesel engine there is, especially at the incredible cost it is available at from Fiat, it is very tried, tested and reliable, from the inventor of common rail injection (Fiat), and is CRITICAL to the acceptability in Europe of Suzuki's otherwise unremarkable cars, as well as central to the success in India of many of Maruti's models.

    Suzuki is INCREASING synergistic and symbiotic ties with Fiat, what with their huge demand for amt gearboxes, for which M Marelli is building a special factory right next door to their plant in Manesar, Haryana.

    The only thing to wait and watch about Maruti Suzuki vis-a-vis Fiat/FCA over the next year or so is whether the widely speculated upon merger/equity-swap/etc between them globally will happen or not.
    dadasaheb and Mabams1826 like this.

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