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Fiat Chrysler India's new MD - Nagesh A. Basavanhalli - Now Quit

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by santhukp, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. adisrini1103

    adisrini1103 Amatore

    Messages:
    243
    Coimbatore
    Linea 1.3
    I would thank him only for the facelifted interiors and ASS... EVO's exterior is not as superb as the GP...but it fits the avvy.....
    Dilip patel likes this.
  2. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    Hyundai would hardly be bothered by any competition from Fiat India at this stage. They are more likely looking at people spilling over from Ford or Maruti (S Cross/ X-Alpha-whatever). That the Avventura is the only significant competitor to the Ecosport is totally lost on everyone. Hyundai just want to mop up a few thousand (1500-2000) with the I20 Cross. They will design it to suit the Indian customers aesthetic tastes. And if they plonk in the 1.6 CRDI, then god save the Avventura :jawdrop:!!

    Because of the above and several related examples from the competition, the market WONT allow it. Unless Fiat sets the bar really, really high on all fronts.
    dadasaheb likes this.
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,444
    delhi ncr
    @acechip I agree, but the fact is that the Aventura has opened up a market niche with the buzz it created, below the (overpriced and poor) Ecosport but above the hatchbacks. It is true though that the benefits will not accrue to Fiat (though I still believe the Avventura will sell 300-400 a month, steadily).

    You will remember that Ford and Toyota both launched Avventura-targetting ads in the run-up to its launch: a sign that Fiat were and still are ON TO something with the Avventura!

    Fiat has a knack for this you know? First diesel hatch (Uno)..but sales to the Tata Indica and the Swift. First premium hatchback (Palio) but the sales went to Maruti and later Hyundai. First hot hatch (Palio 1.6) but...First turbocharged petrol (T-jet) but....

    The market is ignorant, unreasonable and, like the law,....an ASS! (pun!) ;)
  4. PaddleShifter

    PaddleShifter Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,697
    Chandigarh
    Grande Punto 1.3
    What's the buzz gonna do my friends? Ground reality is that everyone comes and takes a test drive of the Avventura but as soon as the price is told, 99.9% people label it as ovrpriced and leave. Visit any dealer and ask to verify.

    Two of my friend were totally sold on the Avventura from the expo. But when the car was launched, both turned away saying that its overpriced as compared to Punto. They didn't bother to check that the current Punto and Avventura have differences worth the price.

    I wish Mr. Nagesh good luck for his career ahead and wish good luck to FIAT too. I hope they are more sensible in product launches. TJET should have launched on day one with Avventura launch. And 1.6 should have come sooner. Maybe they could have for now considered giving 90HP as the standard engine in Punto to compete with Polo 1.5 and i20 CRDi to some extent.
    dadasaheb and asimpleson like this.
  5. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,444
    delhi ncr
    @PaddleShifter

    We are being quite hasty in discounting the Avventura's sales performance. Chandigarh and Delhi are not sub-markets known for much other than extreme herding under the sign of Mruuti, Honda and Hyundai. Perhaps, loud ostentatious 'macho' car style-preference, that's about it. And status-centric car purchase decisions.

    In any case the Gurgaon dealer has sold about 17 so far, and made a deal in front of my eyes the last time I was there, a few days ago: a family man with wife and kids present too. Fiat's much-stronger-than-Delhi markets are in the South and West. Let's see in Jan and Feb, when the real deliveries happen.

    But yeah, sales are not going to be more than say 500 a month steadily, at best. That, though, has next-to-nothing to do with this or that engine. Still, hope they have a 1.2 version of the t-jet (shorter stroke etc) ready soon for launch on the evo and the avventura, that way they can price it with enough of a difference to the diesels.
    asimpleson and PaddleShifter like this.
  6. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    Messages:
    374
    Pune
    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    Forget about the 90 HP engine as standard, they even did not bother to have some different outfit for Evo than Avventura, Lazzy people.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2014 ---
    Looks and features are the way to sell well, i20 have created a big buzz with the exterior looks it got in the Elite guise and the features.
    one person at my hometown was telling me that it does not require even a key to be taken out from your pocket to drive a i20.
    what about Evo or Avvy ? Avvy loses the projectors, 6 speed gearbox from the auto expo display. may be many more i did not remember now.
  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,444
    delhi ncr
    @dadsaheb

    well, as I have pointed out earlier, looks and features CANNOT be the reason for the lack of soaring sales of Fiats: since they are the best looking (almost everyone, even non/anti-Fiat types, agrees), and are much BETTER equipped than anything else including, Hyundai-s and the Ford Ecosport, FOR THE PRICE.

    The Avventura is on for 300-500 sales a month, steadily, or so I'd bet. Let's see in Jan and Feb, deliveries haven't happened fully yet.
  8. adisrini1103

    adisrini1103 Amatore

    Messages:
    243
    Coimbatore
    Linea 1.3
    Why are people argument over this topic again and again... But the answer is very obvious
    there is nothing to say as the USP Product That the mango man understands

    for maruti - Mileage ,amt - budget automatic

    Hyundai - many gizmos and premiumness for a nominal price

    Volkswagen - it started out a premium car brand-(like skoda- they are different for the mango man)

    And most importantly all of them have one thing in common....frequent advertising - (brain washing the public)

    And what does FIAT do sell its engine, sell its gearbox , keeps advertisements to itself then dreams about selling cars
    bharath and dadasaheb like this.
  9. nibedk

    nibedk Regolare

    Messages:
    291
    Hyderabad
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    @prabhjot . We all TFIANs love our cars to the core and take great care of our cars. Fiat makes brilliant cars to drive which are well engineered and are solidly built. But I never get it when you bash almost every other car maker. Any reason for that. As per you Ecosport, Polo 1.5 TDI and Elite are all not that great when compared to Punto. Any reason for your bias? Its fine being a FIAT fan but just bashing every other manufatcturer doesn't make Fiat great. Each cars will have there own strengths. Almost all manufacturers are improving on their achillees heel and with each iteration making it better than before. Elite has improved driving dynamics over i20. The steering though still video gamish is better than older gen. Features and interiors are class leading. Looks wise its the best of the lot irrespective of whether we FIATIANs like it or not. GP was a classic design but I guess the new Evo is just more bling. Polo had anemic engines and at least they put a scorcher in 1.5 TDI. The steering is slightly better than the previous version and pretty good to look at. But FIAT is still sleeping. All others at the very least are trying. FIAT is still making plans , changing CEOs and all that. Sales number yes they are improving. From 500 last year to 1000 this year. 100% year on year growth. They must be kidding. Skoda a manufacturer with the worst reputation in market like India still sells more than FIAT.At least we FIATIANs know deep down that FIAT needs to do more than what it is doing currently and pray that FIAT just doesn't shut shop one day like it did before. I hope FIAT India wakes up and does something so that it gets more visibility. Doesn't matter with 10 models or 2 models or engine upgrades or Abarths. They need to act and act fast. Else 5 years down the line when its time for most of us to change our cars we will not be able to find something which touches our hearts and heads again. Hope FIAT proves me wrong.
    bharath, dadasaheb and acechip like this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,444
    delhi ncr
    @adisrini1103
    :eek:

    (a) Hyundai-s are not at a nominal price: they are at an exorbitant price, compared to the VW Polo, let alone the Punto Evo. Their warranties are puny, and much more expensive, as are their spares and ASS labour charges. Few discounts either. Yet they are bestsellers. Ergo: there is herd-think at play.

    (b) VW and Skoda have been out-advertising everyone else, including Hyundai, and yet their sales are down year-to-date 30%+ on last year where they were already down hugely from the year before. Ergo: there is little that advertising can do when the herd aligns itself (almost permanently) with just 2 or 3 brands.

    (c) Fiat has had numerous ad campagns this last year and a half: make the move, hello life, ads on the diesel engine, ads on features, ads on service centres, and launch ads for the new Linea, new Punto and new Avventura. In addition, they've cultivated a strong on-line presence, and have what is clearly the best website in the Indian auto industry. Still, no surge in sales. Ergo: the market is closed-minded, as if (semi-)permanently, the market i.e., the vast part of which consists of risk-averse herders has made its mind up and will not budge (much). I, at least, wouldn't be too hard on either Nagesh or Fiat on this count.

    (d) Lack of all new launches: has VW had all-new launches, do they not also just offer 2 models in the mass market? How many years since the new Swift launch has it taken Maruti to refresh (facelift would be too generous a word) it? How new is the 'new' Honda City or the 'new' i20 elite, when platform, engines, suspensions, steering systems and transmissions are pretty much the same as the previous 'generation'? Avventura is just a Punto, it's not a new launch! Really? Is the upcoming Jazz not the same car as the new City, then? Maybe the Ritz, Swift, Ertiga and Dezire are not the same car? Maybe the Ecosport is not the same car as the Fiesta? Tough to say that either Nagesh or Fiat have been lazy or somehow wrong on the products front, then.

    All I keep arguing is that we don't realize how tough this marketplace is, how skewed, revealed by the very fact that Suzuki, a globally insignificant player, is dominant here despite 10 to 15 years since the entry of 6-8 other bigger better stronger firms, and where Hyundai, a DISCOUNT manufacturer everywhere including not just the US, Europe but also China, LatAm, ASEAN and the Middle East is regarded as a 'premium' brand and at premium prices too, here.:mad:

    We don't appreciate how tough Enrico+Nagesh's job was. He/Fiat did a lot right in his tenure esp the new dealership and FASS launches and improvements, the comprehensive facelifts/updations, the Avventura. I do feel that he's a more victim of the tough market conditions rather than guilty of errors.:( Wish him well.

    Anyway, lage raho Fiat: MORE of the same! ;)

    It takes time....the renaissance is underway and will last till end 2016 at least!:cool:
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2014, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2014 ---
    @nibedk

    Fiat is sleeping? Kidding surely? Or perhaps just exaggerrating grossly for rhetorical purposes? :p

    125+ new dealerships and FASS, and a clearly improved spares and overall ASS experience since the Tata days is a sign of sleep?

    My new Linea t-jet sure feels like a damn thorough updation (everything from suspension to equipment and interior aesthetics and quality) to my dad's older Linea? Not 'just' a facelift you know, especially not if the very-ostensibly new and improved and transformed City and i20 etc are the yardstick.

    Similar things can be said of the Punto Evo compared to your G Punto too, IF you'd only try one out.

    The Avventura is a new variant, and a convincing one at that, whatever the market thinks (that we'll only know in Jan-Feb), just like the Etios Cross that sells 500+ a month for Toyota or the Ecosport vis-a-vis the Fiesta (the SAME car, you know?), or the Dezire vis-a-vis the Swift etc etc.

    Many ad campaigns though the last year (see my earlier post), too.

    So I think this 'Fiat is sleeping' thing is the opposite of the truth, I know the sales numbers don't back me up on this but it seems to me that your 'joh jeeta voh sikander' is not a reliable or sound way of evaluating car companies' performance, or prospects, anymore than it is rational for a new car-buyer to say that he'll only consider buying one of the bestseller models from one of the few best-selling firms.

    And, when, pray tell, did Fiat ever 'shut shop' in India?

    I get what you are saying about more this and more that NOW!, and you are right, but more this and that is always true, no?

    Does not mean the first stage in the brand re-launch under Enrico+Nagesh has gone badly, when you consider the tough recessionary market conditions. We need to remember that this, the rebuilding of trust in an otherwise excellent brand, is a long PROCESS, which is why they laid out a clear 5 year plan under Enrico and Manley less than two years ago and to which they've stuck on time and as promised (almost). With a few mistakes along the way (launching the Avventura after the Evo, for eg)

    Fiat is now moving to the next stage of that plan, which will of course have to be improvised, but it is at least, therefore, a full 2-3 years too early to be getting worried about Fiat's longterm future in India! ;-)

    And, if you fear for the future in this market of one of the very few profitable-from-domestic-market car companies, Fiat, what does that say, using the same logic, about the following loss-making car firms: Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Renault, Chevy, Ford, VW and Skoda, and Tata too?!! ;-)

    No offence meant, just thinking/arguing aloud at a time when the Fiat India ceo has just lost his job, presumably for weak results. None taken i hope! :)
    bharath, Aviral singh and aramico like this.

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