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Fiat Avventura - Test Drive & Review

Discussion in 'Avventura 1.3 90 HP' started by nkrishnap, Oct 19, 2014.

  1. rudresh

    rudresh Regolare

    Messages:
    264
    Hyderabad, India
    Hyundai has large portfolio almost in all market. Talking about overseas, In US 4-5 yrs back Hyundai was roughly around 400K per year. It was a brand which was looked down to (I personally felt that when I was about to buy a car in US). Never have the status of Toyota or Honda. But in recent yrs they are selling ~700K cars per yr. Thats really an improvement without a doubt.

    Thing is they do not have half hearted attempt in a market. They are serious to gain grounds and results came as we see.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,455
    delhi ncr
    @MakeTheMove

    That's not true: version-for-version the Hyundai i20 is much higher priced. It has one third the warranty coverage, standard or extended. Its spares are among the highest priced in the industry (refer to Autocar's spare parts cost survey from a few months ago). Their labour charges are among the highest (refer the thread on that other automotive forum about Hyundai's ASS practices and prices.)

    And one must not cite Asta(o) equipment lists--that car is WAY more expensive than even a Polo let alone a Punto. Version-for-version the Punto Evo IS as or better equipped: the i20 has no voice recognition nor does it even have a fuel consumption average/distance to empty readout etc.

    And why should we not consider discounts? Even normal dealer-discounts let alone big ones from Fiat India make it VASTLY better value. Still the i20 elite over-sells, and the Punto (among others, under-sells).

    That just proves herding and brand-delusions, man, because an i20 elite sure is the poorest value in the market (the Polo, the Punto Evo and of course the upcoming Tata Bolt blow it away for vfm, IF that is one were willing to look at it objectively).

    And it still doesn't ride or handle or steer or brake as well, nor is it the best built or the safest (these three cars do all of these much better than the i20, even though it is the i20 that is the supposedly the newest and most, what?, 'cutting-edge').

    Proof of this is the pricing of the i20 elite elsewhere in the world: in the UK it is priced well below the Fiesta, Polo etc. Because Hyundai IS a discount brand all over the world but here we have folks who insist not only that the cars are themselves 'the best' which they are NOT by a long way, but that the premiums Hyundai charge are actually justifiable!

    Brand-delusions in the great Indian car baazar. It's like saying Salman Khan is a great actor, or that his films are the best. True at the box-office but.....:p
  3. rishike007

    rishike007 Esperto

    Messages:
    1,416
    Mumbai-Pune
    Pune- Mumbai
    Grande Punto 1.2
    Guys this is Avventura test drive review post so kindly add appropriate post.

    Off Topic: Yeasterday I saw a Zafferano Orange avventura @ rakshak chowk pune. This is the first every avventura I have seen on the road. Not a TD vehicle :)
    The car was looking awesome & has the best road presence.
    prabhjot and dadasaheb like this.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,455
    delhi ncr
    @rishike007

    Not entirely off-topic given the upcoming i20 Cross, that great crossover that will prove that the Avventura is not just overpriced and under-equipped but with appalling ride and handling and is crap to look at too. (tongue-in-cheek):p:p
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2015 ---
    Really? It ranks last in Italy, Brazil, Poland, Serbia or Turkey (where the Linea is the best selling car?) More like....first. It ranks last in the UK, perhaps, where the 500 and the 500L are bestsellers? Perhaps you mean the US, where the Fiat dealerships ('studios') topped a recent American survey for sales and delivery quality? Or maybe you are referring to the US survey where the 'reported' faults with car were mostly....nothing, just a cultural unfamiliarity with small turbo-ed engines, and dual-clutch gearboxes. The 500 outsells Mini by a long long way in the US btw, as does the 500L, as will the 500X.

    The best-selling and hot-streaking brand in the US and globally is Jeep, has been for three years. I posted on that in the Jeep thread yesterday, take a look. It is also consistently bottom of most if not all 'satisfaction' surveys. Tells you a bit about surveys.

    Pre-Marchionne perceptions about Fiat globally, dated info by at least 6 years. Not that Fiat is the best, as we know in India, but depends on what 'satisfaction' means and to whom. A hyundai former-owner will be dissatisfied by a Fiat's steering, but it's the opposite for you and me, no?

    All this beating-up-on-Fiat because the car you love (driving) doesn't sell better in India? (I tease! I tease! No offence.):D
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  5. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    497
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot Exactly I was mentioning the consumer satisfaction surveys not the sales numbers in the US. I know the Jeep numbers. Look at customer satisfaction - it does poorly, it sells well in the mentioned places and I do not disagree.
  6. kgramesh

    kgramesh Amatore

    Messages:
    74
    Palakkad, KL
    Linea T-Jet
    You missed one important thing, perhaps most important- PEACE OF MIND. You get that with Hyundai but with Fiat, No Guarantee.
    Raj_pol likes this.
  7. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    Ok, so just to put things in perspective, I think this peace of mind is applicable to over 80% of cars/buyers in India- unless you have purchased a Mitsubishi in Mizoram, if you get what I mean.

    But that aside, the larger point is that Fiat (minus Chrysler) is not significantly better than Hyundai as a mass market brand, inspite of good technological expertise and spread of products. And in the Indian context, there is simply no comparision to how Hyundai have capitalized on their initial successes and how Fiat India have done exactly the opposite. Starting with Santro, then the Accent, they went on to I-10, and then there was no stopping them after that. Both Santro and Accent were, car-for-car, regarded as good quality products. My Santro never rattled throughout 45000km of its service with me, through the worst of roads. Talk about build quality here. Yes, it was dynamically less accomplished as compared to a Palio, but what did Fiat India do with a good quality product like the Palio? Simply let it go waste. And came up with the abominable snowman, er, Sienna. Ugh, if ever there was an ugly Fiat car!!
    By the time the Petra came up, Fiat had pretty much lost the plot. Meanwhile, Hyundai went on an altogether another planet with their consistent product line, and save for the 1st gen Verna, were generally well acknowledged. The Getz 110BHP diesel was a veritable pocket rocket. And quite sturdily built too.

    Just to bring the thread in the context, Fiat must really work out the Avventura vs Evo conundrum here. Cuz people have choices, and then some. And they aint going to wait for Fiat to bring the T-Jet or MJD 1.6.
    prabhjot likes this.
  8. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,455
    delhi ncr
    @acechip

    Academics call exactly this phenomenon: "path-dependency". i.e., the son (Fiat India in 2014/15) must pay for the sins of their fathers (Fiat and Tata 199X to 2013.) They also call it "lagged effects", "the weight/momentum of history".

    But the same applies to the future, since that is somewhat open, but who knows how open in this case? And more to the point how to MAKE that future without going bankrupt?

    At one level deep pessimism is justified, at another: one can't wait to witness how Fiat (and Jeep and Tata-JV) India go about continuing to do that. If, that is, one thinks they've even begun to do that yet!;):cool:
    acechip likes this.
  9. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    @prabhjot, Fiat had plenty of opportunity to get rid of this path dependency. They launched the Linea T-Jet in 2010- in how many cities ? 4-5. And then by the time more people got a whiff of it, they stopped production in May-2011 (mine is from that last batch). Why did they not aggressively promote it ? And what stopped them from bringing the MJD 1.6 engine at any time ? Throughout 2012, their advertisement/marketing (save for that underwater nightmare) was less than that of an unmarked tombstone. Path-dependency ? Or sheer ineptitude ? Come 2013, they relaunched the T-Jet to the sounds of deafening silence. Again, no signs of MJD 1.6. And this perpetual dilemma over launch of Jeep. There may have been constraints with the JV and its overall equation with Fiat SPA. But how does the customer read it ? Meanwhile their CEOs play musical chairs. What message does that convey to stakeholders ?
    It really boils down to this- which I have mentioned in the past. If and only if Messrs Marchionne and co are really interested in the India story, will they do something about it. As things stand, it is beyond the capabilities of the current FCA-India team.
    prabhjot likes this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,455
    delhi ncr
    @acechip I don't disagree at all.

    Jeep coming to India this year finally perhaps means that India will get the concentrated rather than distantly delegated (Nagesh, an engineer, not a manager or marketer) attention of Mike Manley (a superstar of a ceo in his own right, given Jeep's soaring global sales and reach). And the marketing budgets?

    Rem: Mike is the ceo of not just the Jeep brand worldwide, but also of Fiat in the Asia-Pac region. Speculated to possibly succeed Marchionne in 2018 as FCA ceo. He's a 'star'.

    They just have to up their marketing and product/variant launch game here now, this year, hugely. NOW that the tentativeness of the new dealership rollout and brand-relaunch phase is over. There ARE 125 dealers, and more coming, on the ground, ASS cost and quality improvement have been large...they have to push much harder and better this year, and not neglect the Fiat brand as they get caught up in the Jeep launch.

    They've improved since the brand-sepration-from Tata a lot on all fronts, even marketing quanity, frequency and quality. But this is a very unforgiving market with customers with long memories: it has not been anywhere near enough. Yet.

    If they fail to do that, and/or botch the Jeep launch...i'll give up on them long before you do!;)

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