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FCA US ranked #1 in 'Total Quality'

Discussion in 'Fiat Global News' started by prabhjot, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    delhi ncr
    http://news.allpar.com/index.php/2015/07/fiat-chrysler-is-a-leader-in-total-quality-29245

    Different survey consultancies/research groups use different metrics, different ways of sorting the 'subjective' (the slight turbolag is an awful defect/deficiency, eg) from the 'objective'. So these things are always debatable, especially in a way that explains away the excellence or poverty of different firms'/brands/models' TOTAL QUALITY ranking.

    J D Power especially is famous but very problematic in its methods, samples.

    Well, here is a survey done in a much more 'sophisticated' way that shows FCA to actually now be #1 for Total Quality in the US, with a startling systematic improvement from the takeover time of 2009.

    Fiat, under Marchionne now for i think 12 years, do KNOW how to and have achieved massive quality, reliability, durability improvements in their brands' models, over this time period. Including in India, i believe but that is OT here.

    Dealers and ASS quality/process/hr etc improvements still seem to lag the quality of the cars, though, even in the US! Although, just as in India and Europe, there too there are big improvement, judging anecdotally only of course.

    Well done FCA/Marchionne!:):cool:
  2. MakeTheMove

    MakeTheMove Regolare

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    Pune
    Linea T-Jet
    FIAT as brand, they have very passionate followers which very few brands have. It is very good news for those followers.
    Wishing FCA a very best luck and hope they continue to do better in future too.

    Cheers! :)
    prabhjot likes this.
  3. Anup

    Anup Regolare

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    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Wish FAC India tops the quality scores here as well and I think it's only possible if they manage to keep a entire Plant separate from Tata, come on earlier Palio's were built at Kurla Plant and the Palio Sport/Stile were built at Ranjangaon Plant. Both these cars had 2 different build qualities, it's not like Fiat do not know how to build there cars but looking at soo many Quality Issues and few flimsy quality parts Fiat better pull up there sock and make Fiat a better car, Skoda is doing hard to earn it's fame back, I think its' time even Fiat Indian Management do something about it.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    @Anup

    The 'quality' issues, most of which were in the nature of numerous 'niggles' back when the Linea and Punto were launched, had mostly to do with component-specification (for reasons of costing, in order to match prices the market might be willing to bear/accept) and component-supplier-quality.

    Recent cars, since 2012 i think, and certainly the 2014 refreshed cars and the Avventura hardly have any unusual quality/reliability/durability deficit in any way, except for the rear spare-wheel-mechanism on early batch Avventura-s, and the tyre-related alignment issues on some Evo-s. In fact, when it comes to 'reliability' and 'durability': pretty superb, and arguably class-best by far for many aspects of the cars.

    So no, tata have nothing to do with the percieved quality-shortfall. Since there is NO such shortfall, imo, not even on tata cars built at Ranjangaon.

    It's hardly the plant or the assembly or QA processes there: it's invariably because of (a) either aggressive costing of this or that component, like for eg the seat height adjustment lever (b) weak PDI work at dealer-level.

    The dealers and FASS, though much improved, are mostly at fault for 'perception problems' these days, not the plant, its workers and processes. Similar story with Tata Motors, too.

    My nw 2014 Linea t-jet is impeccably well-put-together with excellent component quality all-round, amazing for the price I got it at! However, the dealer and FASS in Gurgaon is even-less-than-mediocre, while the other FASS is excellent.

    I think 'total quality' issues are NOT there anymore in Indian Fiats or even the Tata JV Zest and Bolt, hardly if at all, but the same still cannot be said of the dealers and FASS which are better but still have much to improve-on. Of course statistically not-significant, occasional issues are and will remain, as they do for all carmakers. Hence the 'recall' for the faulty usb port wiring harness, for eg, on many Evo-s and Avventura-s.
    amitshedha and Anup like this.
  5. Anup

    Anup Regolare

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    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @prabhjot not sure why you always keen to think opposite to what I say, anyway I can quote have few examples which can help my argument to this, I too have nothing against Tata motors but please understand this, Fiat never had a Brand Image(As in good or bad except 1 rumor that all Fiat cars give poor FE- Again courtesy Autocar/Overdrive)
    I know when the down fall of Fiat Image stated, when we had Tata do the Sales/Service.
    Coming to Sales: 2 of my know people wanted the Palio 1.6 sport, Approached Tata Dealer, I was shocked when the dealer "quoted" Sir Fiat cars give very bad FE and have very bad quality, try Tata Indica Petrol even though I was with a rough tone they finally donated 2 of the Palio, these cars have been on the Workshop with multiple issues for months(never sorted, finally both sold there car in 3 years), can this be a co-incidence, may be but what issues the cars faced never heard off from any of the Palio pre-NV/Uno and Siena users.
    Even Tata motors were no less, I've seen a 1.6 GTX with Water cloged ECU, reason while washing they sprayed the ECU with water so practically they were useless in Service.
    When I wen't to buy my Grande Punto from Tata Motors dealer, it was a common site that in Tata Showroom all the Tata cars were on display on the front and only 2 cars of Fiat were at the far behind in the crowd, in my case all the Tata cars were on the Ground Floor and they had the Fiat Showroom at the Top floor, when anyone wanted to go to Fiat showroom, they have to go past Tata and I was asked by a Sales rep, "Sir please don't waste time going up stairs try the Indica Vista", to my shock he balbbered stating "Sirrr Tata invented the Qudrajet engine, it is simple that Fiat car is a foreign company so they sell at high cost". I was so furious that I've escalated this to the MD, eventually Fiat was moved out of that showroom.
    Talking about a 2014 Linea T-Jet, I made a high executive convince for a T-Jet where as she was to go for a Laura with her budget, but then a month and the car was in the workshop twice due to broken armrest lock, broken fuel filler cable and burned bulbs(this cannot be Fiat fault so leave the bulb alone).
    But honestly my next car will be a Fiat for sure but recommending someone for a Fiat, no not at all.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...s-in-2015-jd-power-apeal-study-300117008.html

    More proof that Marchionne-led Fiat-now-FCA's WCM (World Class Manufacturing) factory methodology/protocols, and their engine+design abilities, their in-house auto-compnent production and design (M Marelli etc), added to the marketing nous they display in the US (and in Brazil+Europe) have and will? lead to great rankings on such 'overall satisfaction' studies/surveys.

    Now: for the dealerships to catch up faster/fast enough, too?! There (....and here too!)
    GirishRaghu likes this.
  7. Vidhyashankar Kannan

    Vidhyashankar Kannan Regolare

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    Hyderabad
    Hyderabad
    Avventura 1.3 90 HP
    Nice to know that FCA has recognition like this. But markets abroad are very different from India. Only here do we buy Suzuki like it is the elixir of cars while Suzuki is performing very poorly in nearly every other country. But that's marketing and buyer mentality for you. And of course, First Mover advantage playing a very important role.

    Marketing and Advertising play a very important role in any product as we have proved it by beating ourselves to death about this. The same problems with other manufacturers are pushed under the rug through excellent PR and media management. Perhaps it is time for Fiat to do the same in India.

    JD Power's analysis are pretty rock solid and trusted. So if they have ranked FCA on top, it abodes well. The Fiat 500 is such a good car. If only I could buy one of those. 80 awards!
    prabhjot likes this.
  8. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

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    497
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/27/us-auto-safety-regulators-fine-fiat-chrysler-record-105-million.html

    @prabhjot What you have mentioned above is like the Modi government saying that we have an 8% growth. Both false and untrue - Fiat does not have a solid reputation for quality anywhere in the world and I am talking among the big car manufacturers.

    http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2015/chrysler/fiat-chrysler-slammed-by-us-government-52809

    Read the above thoroughly - ":The Jeep Grand Cherokee, one of FCA's biggest cash cows, is one of the most recalled cars in history, with owners having already been asked back to their dealerships 11 times in Australia since 2011, including eight times last year alone." This is from the motoring article.

    So nope they are definitely not the best in quality - neither abroad nor in India and they cannot expect to get away because they have a good steering or a nice drive.

    Fiat has a long long way to go before they can go up as truly reliable in the minds of customers anywhere in the world.

    As I keep reiterating, I am not a fan of any manufacturer - I just put my thoughts and I believe this forum gives us a chance to discuss more freely the truth compared to others.
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    @Raj_pol

    Where did I say they were the best or even good enough in the wider perception when it comes to 'reliability' etc?

    You need to analyze this stuff in context, not pick up fragments off the internet with little/no analytics.

    That survey I (merely quoted, and you will notice, caveat-ed) says they were #1 in the US context, as per their specific analytics. Other surveys show them faring poorly. So? That would be true of all models from all brands. VW area by-word for unreliability in the Us, but the opposite in Britain. Fiat dealers are regarded as near-industry-best in the US, while here they're seen as close-to worst. etc.

    It depends on the analytic methods/framework, market and segment context, including especially, the historical one.

    There is no doubt that Honda has a quality and reliability crisis right now, in India as well as the US (they've even lost a ceo for such reasons). Toyota had one 3 years ago, with millions of cars recalled and billion-dollar-plus fines in the US, takata airbags, awful fortuner/Hilux brakes (even in India, to go with failing to deploy airbags etc.) Any number of recalls by Chevrolet and Ford too, including in India, mostly much more serious (in India: Honda, Chevy, Ford, Maruti and VW+Skoda and Renault too) than any 'issues' at Fiat India. So?

    What we can say for sure, and you do need to study up a bit if you're going to be an un-biased, non-fan of any brand, is:

    FCA under Marchionne over the last 5+ years have greatly closed the gap in real or percieved Quality and Reliability with the Japanese, who have clearly declined. FCA is not the only one: so have Ford, GM, Renault, Mercedes, and BMW. Hyundai is up there too consistently, in most markets, when it comes to these parameters.

    Perceptions lag, including of supposedly scientific but in fact subjective telephone survey-based simple statistical methods, reality. They also colour them through feedback loops: namely 'Fiat'-s or say VW-s must be awfully expensive to own because (a) the dealer is poor/arrogant/ill-trained/ill-located etc (b) the cars must be unreliable because why else would so many only buy Maruti-s and Hyundai-s etc. It surely cannot be your case that any Maruti Suzuki in india is anywhere near any indian Fiat past or present in QualityDurabilityReliability? Yet that's what the market thinks. etc etc.

    As I said: being a non-fan, or an anti-fan takes some analytic and interpretive work, which you might want to do? If you cared enough.

    FCA's recall record over the last year in the regulated markets, if you study it, is actually much better than most firms, esp: both GM and Toyota+Honda. The recent fines are for DELAYS in implementing announced recalls, mostly. Another is of old, pre-merger, past-model Jeeps. Marchionne explained it in the recent conference call with analysts: the 'cost' is actually a mere tens millions of dollars, pretty small or even niegligible when compared to the quality and recall sufferings of Chevrolet and Toyota (and some others too) over the last few years in the US.

    Of course more recalls may crop up, maybe very major, maybe minor etc. And reputation will be harmed or benefitted as a result.

    But, FCA's booming sales and increasing marketshare in the US+ now, post-recessionary Europe, Australia, Turkey, Brazil, and even China (with premium imports) does not suggest these marketplaces have much of problem at all with FCA brands' quality or reliability, on average.

    India however is a different story. Here, the C2 sedan segment best-selling leader (the Honda City) is by far and obvious to anyone who looks the poorest quality and reliability one. Maruti-s are thought to reliable, Hyundai-s are thought to deserve a big price-premium for better 'quality' and relaibility, etc etc.

    That's just the 'culture' here. No amount of 'scientific' surveys or 'neutral, un-biased' analysis are going to change that!

    Just as in the US: a Jeep buyer will only buy new Jeep-s, not say the Hyundai Santa Fe, or a citycar in the UK will likely be either the 500 or the Panda or the Up!, and hardly the much cheaper i10, and so on.
    C_S and whitepunto76 like this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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