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FCA sales in the rest of the world, esp USA, Europe and Middle East, Brazil

Discussion in 'Fiat Global News' started by prabhjot, Feb 4, 2015.

  1. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Superiore

    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot if you see and read the articles carefully one of the reasons jeep is doing so well is it provides a lot for the price it sells. That unfortunately will not be the case in India as like always they have decided on the idiotic option of going the CBU route. That would mean the cars would be priced at insane prices and the brand will again be killed in India. Jeep holds nothing close to the level respect in India as the big three Germans. So, if Fiat had any brains then they would have launched it from within India (something that Hyundai for example gets right every single time) and then initially would have sold it at mouth watering prices. Once Indians are hooked in to the brand then you can start selling at higher prices. You start at 50L plus and the brand again is DOA.

    I keep saying that the 500X fully made in India was a good opportunity at say around 16L or 17L prices. Hyundai is selling the Creta at similar prices so folks do have the money. I understand the 2 vehicles do not compare but who cares as long as they sell.
    prabhjot likes this.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    JEEP is the US is nothing like JEEP in Europe or say China. In the former: it is THE quintessential american, mainstream and almost-mass-but-with-distinctive cachet/identity brand. Everywhere else JEEP is positioned as a 'premium' and 'distinctive-identity' brand, albeit not as expensive as Land/Range Rover or indeed the Germans, except Audi.

    They will establish the brand and the dealers with the cbu halo models (wrangler+grand cherokee). Then, they will launch in 2017 the localized c-suv. And then, possibly, the localized Renegade, or a potential emerging-markets-special engineered and built and exported out of India (or so said the FCA international product planning head last year to an aussie magazine.)

    THOSE models will indeed be well-priced, being localized somewhat. BUT they too will be at a huge premium to the Suzuki/Hyundai offerings?

    Let's see what sorts of prices they offer the Grand Cherokee at, which has a champion Fiat v6 diesel and is way-more-heavily loaded with equipment, gizmos and features than even the topend Germans. They can charge more than Audi IMO, but no more than the topend Mercedes m-class/gle.

    The brand and the nameplates have just SO much character and distinction, including the GC srt v8 petrol!) that this brand building exercize before the India-made c-suv (etc?) come should work well. Remember: they are apparently starting only with 2 dealers and will expand i guess to no more than 14-16 by the time the c-suv launches. The c-suv too is more for exports than for large Indian-retail sales.

    I guess they're just following in the footsteps of Jaguar-Land Rover in India: they too started local assembly only 2-4 years into the brand- and dealership-launch?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2016 ---
    FCA in december 2015 for Germany: down a tad overall, month-on-month, since Jeep's excellent growth tapered a bit in december. Fiat outgrew the market-average somewhat, mostly 500+500X+Panda+vans. Alfa was also down a bit, as the Giulia is awaited. JEEP has shifted around 900-1100 vehicles, including many big GC and Wranglers on average consistently throughout the year. FCA has done a great job managing to grow better-than-average for the whole-year in the lion's den: Germany. Mercedes +Audi +BMW +VW +Skoda +Opel +Ford is the competition there.

    Incidentally, while the VW scandal-group is seeing a big sales/growth dip throughout europe, including in the UK, the german public as well as government seems to be going all-out in its support. Also, Maserati sees good demand in fast-sedan-favouring Germany. So: the Alfa Giulia could be a bit of a hit here, of all places?!! And one would expect the big german taxi and ride-sharing/uber etc industry/corporate/executive-fleets to like the value proposition of the Fiat Tipo/Aegea sedan very much, too. Germany will likely stay buoyant economically in 2016, thanks partly to the additional expenditures by the govt there in support of the provisioning of and the governing of the million+ Syrian etc migrants or rather refugees who are there now.
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    FCA in the UK and in Brazil, also Argentina, dec 2015

    FCA was up month-on-month in the UK, thanks to the Renegade and the 500X. Since the boom in sales of the 500 and the 500L in 2013 and 2014, the Fiat brand has slowed and lost some marketshare in 2015. But they've made up a lot of that via the higher-margin sales of Jeep that are increasingly well-established and accepted in the UK, despite resistance from the automotive press which is given, as usual, to patriotic defenses of Land Rover (and, for strange reasons, the German marques, esp the VW group).

    Like Germany, Britain is a very large-hatch and esp sedan-centric market, the latter as executive leasing-company fleet-sales. FIAT has therefore, absent such models for several years, hit a ceiling on its growth. That will change somewhat or a lot with the ultra-price-competiveAegea models, and the new German-sedan-fighting Alfa Romeo Giulia. However, because of the feedback loop of resale value and cheap prices by the big players (i.e., the German firms) to fleet and leasing companies, it will be slow and steady going for Fiat and Alfa, rather than a great spurt. Also, the UK market has very likely peaked, and indeed could slip into a recession, what with the ultra-strong pound, and the impending possible catastrophe of the UK leaving the European Union in the upcoming referendum.

    In Brazil, FIAT ended up the biggest car maker by far (around 440,000 sales), but still down 30%+ on in an economy that is in deep recession and crisis. However, the immense success of the locally-made high-margin Jeep Renegade, means amazingly that FCA is despite everything STILL profitable in LatAm.

    It is the ONLY such firm in recessionary LatAm.

    The premiumization new-model push is just starting: new Toro, new jeep c-suv, all-new Punto+Grand Sienna+Palio+Mobi all by end 2016/mid-2017. FCA will therefore, amazingly, be picking up marketshare hugely but also profits in 2016/2017, severe recession or not?

    Of course Argentina is on the mend as well sales-wise, since the new government's election.

    It is also very likely that exports from brazil and Argentina will be ramped up a lot: to Mexico but esp to Europe and/or the USA itself.
    gpunto75 likes this.
  4. gpunto75

    gpunto75 Amatore

    Grande Punto 1.3
    1. U.S. Dealer Sues Fiat Chrysler Over Sales Reporting.


    An Illinois car dealer has sued Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV, accusing the fastest-growing of the major auto makers of manipulating new- vehicle sales reports.

    2. Fiat Chrysler denies charges it lied about sales


    Italian-American carmaker Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) is denying allegations that it encouraged dealers to inflate monthly sales.
    The car company is being sued by a US dealer who says it encouraged dealerships to lie about monthly car sales.
    FCA said it had not yet been served with the lawsuit, but that the "claim is without merit".
    FCA's stock price fell 5% in New York and 7% in Milan on Thursday.
    The dealer, Napleton Automotive Group, accused FCA of racketeering and fraud.
    prabhjot likes this.
  5. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    Funny: an excellent example of how the viral internet algorithmic 'journalism' with each site reporting what some originary site reported, one-sidedly, without research or fact checking or sourcing or any understanding of either company-dealer relations, knowledge of the particular dealer or indeed the law.

    It turns out, or so FCA and a lot of folks who know this dealer-group say, that: they were deep under-performers and were on the verge of being annuled as FCA dealers, and that the threat of a lawsuit was used verbally by the dealer, under American state-level dealer franchise laws, to stave that off.

    Here is fca' s statement on the matter:


    By definition it is NOT an overstatement of sales numbers, since the lawsuit itself only says that sales were padded right at the month-end under financial-incentive pressure from fca ONLY TO BE nullified from the IT system at the start of the new month. So it cannot be any sort of inflation of sales.

    These ultra-aggressive incentivizations of dealers are ubiquitous in the auto industry in the usa (apparently, from GM to Mercedes) as well as in europe, especially in France.
    Amit Rox and gpunto75 like this.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    FCA as-a-whole has grown 12+% over 2014 in 2015,in Europe-as-a-whole, the fastest growth of any firm, other than mercedes and nissan (the former with its cascade of all-new models, and the latter thanks to its crossovers, mainly the Qashqai and a few other new models.)

    FCA has achieved this merely with 2 all-new-for-2015 models: the 500X and Renegade, twinned. Plus the facelift of the 500/Cinquecento. That is all.

    FIAT on its own grew faster than any other brand, except nissan and mercedes. JEEP, of course, grew more than 120% (new renegade and a little less new Cherokee, Grand Gherokee held dead-steady in sales as well). Maserati grew 11+%. The Alfa Romeo giulietta held up steady in sales as well. it is getting a very heavy revision this year, alongwith the launch of the all-new Giulia sedan. Of course the vans (doblo, ducato, daily etc) have sold very well too, as usual.

    Marchionne had held back on all-new FIAT models, except for the 500L and then the 500X, since: (a) europe in general and italy in particular was in recession for years in the early part of the decade (b) all non-luxury carmakers are lossmaking in europe since the cost base is too high in a cut throat market (c) all financial resources were devoted to completing the merger with the american brands and with capitalising on the boom in N American sales, as well as for the new models and new chinese+brazilian plants for JEEP and for its very successful globalization of sales.

    Now that FIAT has turkey as a cutting-edge manufacturing base for the Tipo/Aegea threesome of models, and also has the Mazda miata-based 124 Spider plus the mitsubishi pajero/triton-based full back-pickup, plus one or 2 new Abarth models as well: Marchionne is making the uniquely PROFITABLE move of a RUSH of all-new models this year.

    To which also to be added: the faceifted Alfa Giulietta, the facelifted Alfa Mito small hatch, the all-new Alfa Giulia sedan, and the Maserati Levante sports-luxury-E-suv.

    FCA will likely in 2016 launch one or two hybrid models too, probably on the new Maserati and/or Alfa nameplates, hybrid tech that is innovative and has just been shown on the all-new Chrysler Pacifica stylish-minivan in America. This last car too is likely to be re-badged as either a fiat or a lancia and launched in Europe/italy.

    Other models will follow, surely in 2017 if not end-2016, too: an all-new Punto, a bigger Panda, a bigger 500X cuv branded-a-FIAT, and a Fiat freemont/Dodge Journey replacement. Meanwhile JEEP will of course launch the new c-suv/compass that we in india will be getting locally-made (in 2017).

    i.e., the Marchionne-the-genius-manager/leader's been proven very right, his timing of new product, of what type, under what brand and manufactured where (for cost reasons) is proving IMPECCABLE, uniquely so among all car firms (not counting luxe brands).

    NET-NET: FCA under Marchionne is the ONLY mainstream car company to be profitable in ALL regions of the world: europe, latam, n america AND China+asia-pacific.

    ALREADY, despite serial and multiple recessions etc etc.

    AND: the new models are ONLY now arriving thick and fast, including in Brazil, China, the USA and.....India??

    IN SUM: FCA is a fast-growing bunch of car brands with good prospects in 2016/2017, in all market-regions, all else like global macroeconomics being equal, with growing profitability too!

    It is UNIQUE among car firms for this combination: fast-growing, fast-growth-prospects because of the slew of all-new models from fiat to alfa, jeep and maserati, and most importantly.....growing profitability too in all 4 major market-regions.

    The only sad but not-bad-because-lucrative-for-FCA news, of course, is that: Ferrari is no longer part of the FIAT family of Italian-American brands and cars. Marchionne remains in charge of it, of course, and the Agnelli-s remain its majority-owners.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
    gpunto75 likes this.
  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    FCA in Turkey in Dec 2015

    The hugely rebounded turkish car market got, for political and geopolitical reasons, a major hiccup in september and october but seems to've resumed slight growth in nov and dec.

    Fiat has fared much better than most through the year, and esp in december, when the added volumes (about 4000+) of the Aegea sedan were sold. S for Fiat has sold 5700+ Aegea-s, launched just 3 months ago. They apparently have a large order book already. And even Italy, a sedan unfriendly market, has seen 2500 odd Tipo-s, tukish-made, sold in the first month of availability itself. So: for a Turkey-developed and made and exported project, The Aegea/Tipo one (with the hatch and the stationwagon comming very soon) it is BIG success for Fiat Turkey/ Tofas.

    And, with the depreciated turkish currency it'll add plenty to margins and profitability for FCA e-me-a, and as such exemplifies the Marchionne strategy over the last many years. Margins first, for which further, greater geographical diversification of manufacture is essential beyond just Italy, Brazil and the US, namely Turkey, Mexico, China, Argentina (just last month) and.....India in 2017.

    The vans and commercial vehicles have done well again, growing further, and exporting.

    Jeep as well has added good growth in december due mainly to the Renegade.

    Turkey will likely be an important hub from where FCA can also re-enter the just-reopned but big and hungry Iran-ian market, esp for commercial vehicles and vans. Perhaps India-made Fiats and/or components/powertrains will be important too for Fiat and Jeep to 'penetrate' the new Iranian market once again, in 2017/18?
  8. gpunto75

    gpunto75 Amatore

    Grande Punto 1.3
    prabhjot likes this.
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    FCA sales for Jan 2016 in Italy, Spain and France

    The trend of excellent FCA growth, both Fiat-brand and Jeep, with steadiness from Alfar Romeo and good growth for Lancia (just one model, the Ypsilon, sold only in Italy) outgrowing almost all mass market manufacturers in these big and nicely growing markets continued in Jan 2016.

    Notable is the HUGE outperformance (compared to VW, the french firms Renault+Peugeot-Citroen, Ford, Dacia and Nissan+Toyota) by the Fiat brand in terms of year on year growth in France, mainly due to the 'hit' status of the 500X, to go with decent Jeep sales too.

    Spain is seeing notably large demand for Jeeps, many even-bigger-Jeeps (Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee) sold too.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 2, 2016 ---
    FCA sales growth in the USA, Canada and Mexico, jan 2016

    FCA has grown all-told 7% in the US market, with Dodge, Jeep and Ram leading the way, while the Chrysler and Fiat brands struggle, the latter largely because of the ultra-low gasoline prices in a large-car-biased marketplace.

    Average transaction prices have, again, risen sharply: margins are rising fast too.

    FCA has totally and comprehensively outperformed ALL its main competitors: beating Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, discount/incentive-dependent Hyundai-Kia, VW too.

    Even Ferrari and esp the down-in-2015 Maserati have grown smartly.

    However, the Chrysler 200 and the Dodge Dart, both post-merger models, have seen sales tank year-on-year, revealing that their good sales numbers in 2014 and 2015 were a function of discounts, and that these models are loss-making for FCA.

    And so, Marchionne has just announced that FCA will not build ANY sedans of any size or price in expensive USA, and indded will 'outsource' these 2 models soon enough (2017) to some 'partner' firm or the other, presumably based in Japan or China, so that costs can be cut and margins boosted in a segment dominated by the japanese and korean carmakers that enoy several thousands of $ of a currency-value and legacy-cost advantage.

    He has done so in order, also, to deploy their freed-up capacity for building more of the current and several future (by 2017 and 2018) cuv-s, suv-s and pickups FCA will be launching under the Jeep, Dodge and Chrysler brands.

    The outsourcing 'partner' Sergio alluded to could, however, just be their Chinese jv partner with whom they build the Fiat Viaggio aka Dodge Dart and its hatch/cross version, the Ottimo, and who are building its platform mate the Jeep Cherokee and soon: the C 200 too. i.e., most likely FCA will import-their-own-car(s) from China for cost reasons rather than badge-engineer say a Mazda or a Mitsubishi or a Peugeot-Citroen. If so: it hopefully points to Marchionne's serious use of low-cost manufacturing and currency-competitive costs in countries like Turkey (Aegea to europe), China....and potentially India (jeep c-suv and new punto/new avventura in 2017?) for exports back to the core, 'home' markets, whatever the patriotic backlash or criticism?

    Good growth in Canadian-built models like the Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger+Challenger and the Minivans for Dodge as well as Chrysler also means a meaningful depreciated-currency benefit for FCA.

    In Canada FCA continued to be the #1 firm overall, eking out a 1% gain: this will indeed remain the case with higher growth rates going forward as the Windsor Canada-built Pacifica luxe-Minivan goes on sale soon (March).

    In Mexico too FCA grew 7-8%, esp the Fiat Strada-as-a-Ram700, and a Mitsubishi sedan- and the Fiat Grand Sienna-as-Dodges. Plus Jeep, Ram and the Dodge Journey.
    gpunto75 likes this.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr

    FCA is, by a distance, the biggest seller of Cuv-s and Suv-s in the American+Canadian markets, the world's biggest for such vehicles. Mainly Jeep of course, but also Dodge with the Journey (Fiat Freemont in Europe) and the Durango.

    That lead will extend a good deal further since the next-up new models for FCA there will be the new C-Suv/new Compass from Jeep, as also the Pacifica minivan/crossover.

    Of course: the wrangler is unique, and has no competitor whatsoever. And between them the 500X and the Renegade are the #1 for FCA in the now-sizeable compact cuv/suv market in the usa.

    This is some considerable relevance for FCA's new, updated product/model strategy in both America and Europe+Brazil.

    Marchionne has just announced that fca will simply stop making in n america any non-full-size, rwd (dodge charger, chrysler 300) sedan: manufacture of the dodge dart and the chrysler 200 will be outsourced to a 'partner'. presumably, not 'imported from detroit' but from china at the new jv plants there for the viaggio, ottimo and the Jeep cherokee.

    He wants to totally focus on cuv-s and suv-s with the all-new models coming up by 2018, for the usa: new Journey, new Wrangler, Wrangler pickup 4x4, chrysler 7-seat cuv, alfa romeo d-sporty-cuv, and a Fiat 500XL too. Also: around 2018, a return of the ORIGINAL luxury large suv, the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer to go up against Range Rover (Sport). Plus a redone grand cheokee, a heavily redone cherokee and the dodge durango too.

    Meanwhile, Brazil gets the Mobi micro-cuv, the Toro pickup (out anyday now) and cuv (by 2018), the new Jeep Compass (2017), and a possible (also like the Compass: for India) a sub-renegade a-suv Jeep, special to 'emerging markets'. A larger Panda for europe based on the Mobi is rumoured too.

    The 'policy' line they've taken is that (a) low fuel prices are here to stay (b) the shift in american and global taste to suv-s is permanent, then (c) China(, Australia, japan) and europe too increasingly prefer suv-s/cuv-s, including the fast growing Jeep brand in both places.

    They will, they say, ensure fuel efficiency and eissions govt mandates are met by (a) turbocharging engines (b) upgrading the v6 pentastar petrols with a number of small technologies (c) deploying their newly shown on the March-releasing Pacifica minivan: phev system (d) using diesels in the case of the all-new Wrangler out in 2017/2018.

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