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Comparison Of Tuning Boxes

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by ProBiker, Feb 23, 2011.


  1. Johnny,

    I agree , but what surprised me is Race Chip seems to have knob to control the injector opening duration. Also seems to change the rail pressure based on RPM so it can't be just a resistor.

    Anyway I will be doing a test drive of Jishnu's car some time next month.
    -Sat
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  2. jishnu

    jishnu Superiore

    Messages:
    651
    Bangalore
    Sure probably on 9th of july :) BTW we stay near by, not very far. I'll PM you the place to meet and my phone number.
  3. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    how did you figure this out that it changes the injector opening timings?
  4. I have used/reviewed the quite a few tuning boxes,helped few people on the forum install it for their cars , this one is little unique ,where manufacturer has given two knobs,one is sure fuel pressure and after reading the description of second knob is meant for extending the power over RPM range, I guess it has to be done by extending open interval of the Fuel injectors.

    I may be wrong,but that's what I could think off, but these are black boxes nothing is reveled to customer!!

    Other unique tuning box I saw was from super chips,it was having four different connectors to injectors nothing at the CR pressure sensor.

    -Sat
  5. johnny

    johnny Regolare

    Messages:
    437
    Greater Noida
    Greater Noida
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @Sat-Chit-Ananda,

    I make no claims to being an expert on tuning boxes. However, there is a paragraph in the web page which may be relevant:-

    "What about the more expensive tuning boxes?
    Well, if all that is intercepted is the Rail Pressure Sensor, and it is external to the ECU, it will work the same way. You can have devices where the resistance added is adjustable by a small potentiometer on the outside, but it still is just a resistor in a large, expensive box. Extra circuits may be added, more complex methods may be used, but it still will come down to adding resistance into a circuit and fooling the ECU.
    Even real time adjustment of the falsified Rail Pressure Signal would require more inputs for the engine speed, and the Torque Request, and any big or fast changes would be immediately spotted by the ECU. In those cases, if the rail pressure sensor suddenly starts to show dropping pressure from a Tuning Box altering the signal, a failure in the pump, or a Rail Leak will be assumed by the ECU."


    In case you are inclined to fit the tuning box, go right ahead, but it is good to be aware of what exactly you are getting into.

    Regards
    Johnny
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  6. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    Guys, be it one connector or an individual connector to all the four injectors. The function is the same - add more fuel.

    Diesels, unlike petrols run hotter when they run rich and vice versa. So more the fuel you put in ( without adding the required amount of air) the hotter your diesel engine is gonna run because the air-fuel ratio is towards the richer side.

    Now, who all are gonna be affected by the increased temps :

    1. The Turbo - Two things kill turbos real fast. Increased heat & Increased soot.
    The tuning box is gonna increase these two variables pretty damn much. Especially more so for the VGT guys. The vanes are gonna get blocked and there will be no movement in them. And a VGT operates on the principle of moving vanes.

    There are countless evidences of increased heat killing turbos. Turbo Timers were not built to fool people, but to help save the turbos by letting the engine idle for a specified time before shutting it down. It was for one of this reason that pre-lubers were invented, to provide lubrication at start up and to provide oil even after shutdown to help the turbo.

    Many of us will be thinking that increased heat should show up on our coolant temperature gauges. No. Connect a pyrometer gauge in your exhaust , and see the kind of temperatures your turbo sees. Stock and with tuning boxes.

    2. The oil - Every oil has a Flash Point.
    And once it sees its flash point in the engine , it gets pretty much useless. Nobody runs an oil in the engine which has seen its flash point.
    The chances of the engine oil seeing its flash point increase with the addition of the tuning box due to the increase in temperatures.

    In general , the oil IS gonna be affected by the higher temps in the turbo and in the combustion chamber. Unless we can compensate for it by the use of a bigger and more efficient oil cooler. But even that is no permanent measure.

    3. The valves - The valves in these engines are not like the ones in performance engine. They can only tolerate that much heat. And the heat in a turbo diesel is already pretty high. And increasing it even further is not gonna help the valves one bit.

    And , high BHP figures do not cause as much harm to gearboxes and clutches as high torque figures do.

    Remember , we do not have a Getrag V160/161 gearbox ( found in Toyota Supra JZA80) in our cars. It could withstand extreme bhp and torque right from the factory.
    Ours is a economical family car. And its gearbox is built accordingly. So is the clutch.

    I only speak out of concern for your vehicles. I have no agendas. Nor am i in the tuning business.

    Gurjinder.
    5 people like this.
  7. royj

    royj Esperto

    Messages:
    1,306
    Trivandrum
    Gurjinder, that is a very comprehensive description of the situation.
    During our last (Techie) TFI meet, Cinju shared the experience of one guy here in Trivandrum, who had a tuning box fitted to his Punto and finally had his engine blown.
  8. jishnu

    jishnu Superiore

    Messages:
    651
    Bangalore
    @Gurjinder paaji- Any car manufacturer build's its cars gearbox and clutch so that it can take 60% more than the normal power output. Clutch failures are mostly due to half clutch in city traffic.
  9. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    May i know the source of that information.


    Let's take the example of the Linea MJD.

    Stock power-93bhp

    60% of 93bhp= 55.8 bhp

    Add up = 148.8bhp.

    When pushing 148bhp from the 1.3 Multijet , the torque would be somewhere around 320Nm (adding roughly 60%)

    Will the factory clutch and gearbox handle 148bhp and 320Nm ?

    No. Let's not kid ourselves.

    Guys, think. Think hard before doing anything rash.

    Gurjinder.
  10. jishnu

    jishnu Superiore

    Messages:
    651
    Bangalore
    Source- My dad, he is in M&M :)

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