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Comparison Of Tuning Boxes

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by ProBiker, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

  2. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

  3. drifter

    drifter Regolare

    Does Cosworth design the maps on Indian soil? As long as this isn't done then the re-maps can't be all that good. Ambient conditions like fuel quality, compression ratio (differs from country to country due to octane or cetane rating) and climatic conditions.

    A re-map can be evenly bad. It entirely depends on who did the map. And as mentioned above it should be made on the local soil under local conditions.

    None of the dealers will be able to detect the a properly done re-map. Not even Fiat India has got the right software/hardware to do this. Of course when rouge traders do it then it is fairly easy to detect. We have got the software to detect it.

    Currently in India there are only 4 places where the maps can be customised

    India's national engine comes from factory with 70 to 105bhp in stock form. All engines are identical. Just the turbos and the maps are different. The reasons for the different power outputs are many fold. A performance tuner knows where the limit is. Door step mappers wouldn't know that.

    As mentioned befre, it depends on the map. You can buy software and hardware and do it yourself. However, whether you will get the map right is a different situation. Getting more power from a map is not very difficult. On normally aspirated applications it has its limits soon. To hit the limits need the understanding of a performance tuner or you soon will run into trouble.

    On force induced applications it is much easier to extract more power. When done correctly the engine will survive for a long time.

    Petrol engines in the long run when over fueled will suffer from bore wash. When ignition timing is not correct (dending on fuel quality and compression ratio) you either burn out the valves or you destroy the engine.

    On turbo Diesels when fueled wrong the turbo will be destroyed and this leads in many cases to engine damage.
  4. abhinit90

    abhinit90 Amatore

    New Delhi, India
    Well he was speaking about cosworth which does customized maps in some cities, it does it all on indian soil.

    A remap may be bad but a tuning box will almost 100% have some issues imo.

    Also, a remap can and will be recognized by all the modern ECU's if the company wants to know, I think ford or another company has said that they speciialy look for remaps and all when a car comes to them to be repaired under warranty which has major damage.

    Also consider me a noob but if the same engine is tuned at 75bhp adn 105bhp then will there be no difference on the longetivity?
  5. theblack

    theblack Esperto

    I"m also a noob w.r.t remaps but my point here is this...
    Even if the remaps can be figured out by FIAT , it will come into account only when my engine or turbo or valves or .... starts failing and i take it to the showroom.
    Till then they wont bother.

    where are these places and is any place available in bangalore?

    Finally I"m not looking out for a change that will make my punto run like "Abarth esseesse" or like an F1 car.
    I find that there are some small issues with power delivery in 2nd, 3rd gear and I'm only addressing them with this mod.
    Also since I'm going to be paying for it I'd like a bit of overall tuning also, but not to the extent that it will damage parts.

    Now I dont think such small changes will have terrible impacts on the turbo and valves that it will blow, or is it?
    Besides when you say good remap? what does that mean.
    Is there a dyno chart for punto in specific that I can look at and get some guidelines so that I can tell these guys to tune it accordingly?

    PS:: With so much of discussion I'm only getting a feeling that perhaps remaps/tuning boxes is not such a good idea after all :(
    Guys with such mods please speak out in my favor!! :)
  6. Quick Update

    Good Discussion going on in my ABSENCE!!
    Liked it.

    Basically I feel a remap is a Multi channel alteration of the Signal output which is written on the ECU itself.
    Tuning box is a single channel alteration of the Signal output.
    Piggy back ECU is a Multi channel alteration of the Signal output which is written on an external box.
    All have their pros & cons.
    Nothing is good or bad.
    It all depends on your requirement & usage.
    Basing on these the equation changes.

    Ex- A medicine which is good for a patient is bad for another patient.

    To add to the existing trouble we decided to test the Reliability factor of the Engine to a certain extent.
    We tried to check the EGT ( Exhaust Gas Temperature ) the most important factor which can break the Turbo with the high temperatures.
    We also tried to analyse the Pulses which are altered by the Boxes.
    All the Boxes were put into this test & the results are quite interesting.
    Will publish some results soon.
    1 person likes this.
  7. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Tuning boxes are add on devices that work by intercepting the signals between the ECU and the sensors and fuel system in the engine. Some tuning boxes intercept the sensor signals fooling the ECU into thinking that the engine is doing something different to what it actually is, thus making the ECU add more fuel. Other tuning boxes work by intercepting the output signals from the ECU and thus modifying the fuel control. Either way, a tuning box will only increase the amount of fuel that is added. Furthermore, the tuning box is always fighting the ECU. The ECU will to some extent try to compensate for the increase in fuel that is caused by the tuning box. This is especially true of the latest Euro IV engines with very tight emission controls. The end result is often inconsistent performance, and sometimes no improvement in performance at all.

    A remap on the other hand works in harmony with the engine and emissions control. There are some tuning boxes that facilitates/alters a "remap" is simply a rewrite of the software in the engine computer. Let's avoid the tuning boxes which simply increases the fuel inputs, they affect durability high-time. One may realize suddenly facing a breakdown@150000-200000Kms. It looks a lot but Multijets are too sturdy to break down with anything like 150000-200000 kms of range (under normal operations). They don't interact at other levels with the ECU like electronic throttle control (drive-by-wire), valve timing, boost control (in turbocharged engines), ABS, the automatic transmission, speed governor (if equipped), and the electronic stability control system.

    Unlike the tuning boxes which mostly alter the amount of fuel, the ECU remap alters the turbo boost pressure, fuel injector duration, fuel timing, fuel pressure, and many other parameters, all of which can be optimized to give substantial increases in power and torque, while still remaining within emission control envelopes. Since no signals are intercepted, the ECU does not have to compensate for any abnormal readings and therefore the performance will be consistent. With the Euro IV engines, the ECU remap is the only way to improve performance because the ECU is too sensitive for a tuning box to successfully alter the behavior of the fuel system without the ECU compensating for it. It really comes in handy if the turbo's is low pressure one leaving max. room for performance improvement without harming durability. Now one needs to analyze further MJD's do have low pressure turbo's. I think they are low pressure. Why? Pls look at the specific outputs of Torque/power they maintain for 1.6/2 ltr MJD. The power is in the range of 85 Bhp/200 NM per ltr. Their Turbo's must be high pressure compared to smaller Multijets. Just a realistic & logical thought as per myself, nothing concrete to claim here.

    There is very usual happening these days. The engines with tuning boxes with more power for instance 1248 CC like 120 bhp/275 NM may loose to some bigger engines with factory tuning/less power/torque figures. Why? These Euro 4 engines are not for tuning boxes. Their ECU's resist any change & performance gains are limited due to stricter emission controls. AT least opt for the one which does something else other than increasing fuel amount.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  8. Naughty

    Naughty Superiore

    Does Any of our fellow Fiatian know what would be the custom duty one has to pay if we import a Tuning Box ?

    I am planning to buy a Racechip Chip Tuning box by paying online from their website... I know that much that I have to pay the custom duty to courier agency(UPS in this case) directly for the same... but neither me nor the seller has any idea about the custom duty in India on this product. Product is costing 129 Euros + 45 Euros for Shipping... so total cost without Custom Duty will be approx INR 12250...

    Any help? :anyone
  9. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    New Delhi/Mohali
    Grande Punto 1.3
    4k for the customs
  10. Naughty

    Naughty Superiore

    Thanks for the info Phew...:up

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