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Comparison Of Tuning Boxes

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by ProBiker, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. TheDrifter

    TheDrifter Amatore

    Messages:
    99
    Hyderabad
  2. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    That's a mighty increase in torque and bhp they are claiming.

    I wonder why they haven't mentioned at what rpm's does max torque of 261Nm come in. That is much more important than the figure of 261Nm itself. These guys should put up dyno charts. Else it'll seem that they plucked these figures out of thin air. :)

    Can you get in touch with these guys and know the rpm's where Max Power and Torque are achieved? Preferably backed by a dyno sheet.

    Cheers.
  3. What ever the BHP figures we see is it at flywheel or actual wheel? if it is at flywheel then there has to be a reduction at the wheel due to gearbox losses.
    but DYNO measures the torque/power at the wheel.so these numbers are little dangerous to drive train I guess.
    Please correct me if I am wrong.
  4. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    Whatever bhp figures we see being put out by manufacturers are all at the crank hp ( excluding all losses associated with drivertrain and other auxillary components.

    Assuming a 15% loss in the drivetrain and other parasitic losses (power steering etc etc) , at the wheels the 90bhp figure becomes 76.5 wheel-hp.

    It is the high torque which has the potential to harm drivetrains not designed for it. Especially if it comes in truck-loads at low-rpm's. That's why these chip/remap guys should put up dyno sheets. So that we know what's happening at what rpm.

    Guys like drifter may put up their 2 cents as to how much the stock drivetrain can handle. And 26kgm is a lot of torque. Something like 24kgm sounds saner.

    Cheers.
  5. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    ye boxes ke piche mat pado yaaron
  6. TheDrifter

    TheDrifter Amatore

    Messages:
    99
    Hyderabad
  7. drifter

    drifter Regolare

    Messages:
    310
    London/Mumbai
    To start with Fiat has different torque ratings for different 1.3 gearboxes. The only way to find out is to reference the code to the technical data of the gearbox. The box will be at its limit with this sort of torque and the cars are rather heavy, which does not allow for torque to go into wheel spin if it comes to the crunch.

    I personally rate TDI not very highly. Same as with TMC who claim to be the daddies, but a lot of the stuff has proven trouble some.

    When going on the TDI site and looking for fuel savings and tope speed increase you will find that all their tuning boxes for all cars increase top speed by 16kph and fuel consumption improves by 4-6% :confused: > how they manage it to be so consistent for all cars is beyond my engineering capabilities. :D

    Having had a look at the 73bhp Fiat 500 1.3M-Jet they claim a 21bhp increase. We had this argument with Kiirus before getting to the point that Abishek from Kiirus insulted me first for bringing up the facts and then backing down from 21/22bhp to 17bhp. Neither myself nor my competitors get more than 15bhp improvement on this engine (73bhp) without starting to excessive smoking and this will be with a dedicated re-map not only a tuning box.

    I would also like to mention that I am absolutely no fan tuning boxes. I personally would only use the option of a dedicated re-map unless there is no other option. As a long standing tuner and engineer I might be a little biased being a perfectionist.

    However, we have ample of proof that these extreme amouints of power changes on little engines need to be done on a individual car basis rather than churningt out run of the mill tuning boxes.

    What the market needs also to understand is that Diesel varies from manufacturer and country as much as petrol does. This is by no means an indication that Indian Diesel (because of the additive package) is inferior to European Diesel. It is different, which makes the flame front development different and therefore needs alterations to the map co cater for this. It might look overkill, but it isn't. When the time for completing an entire combustion process is less than 1/100 of a second then evreything is important.

    The Multi jets are even more complex as they squirt fuel into combustion chambers up to 12 times per cycle in each cylinder. Making it even worse is the fact that these squirts vary in length.

    We unfortunately had to do many turbo, drive sghaft, clutch, gearbox and engine repairs due to wrongly mapped cars coming from re-maps as well as tuning boxes.

    Look deeper into the evidence and come to your own conclusion, which is better than taking my word for it.
    2 people like this.
  8. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    Bang on Peter. Boxes aren't the smartest way to get more power.

    I reckon there's a typo here?. 12 times per injection is quite a lot. Multijet II is being marketed as being able to achieve upto 8 per cycle. What's the source of this 12 times/cycle figure?

    Cheers.
  9. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    yes 12 injection per cycles seems to be wrong data.

    can you tell us MJD specific remap changes that needs to be done?
  10. Regarding various comments on the Boxes -

    They are for ease of use.
    They are for Value for money.
    Some are inferior to remaps.
    So we are not going to discuss whether they are good or bad.
    Neither about the advantages or disadvantages.
    we are only testing & reporting which is the best of the lot.

    The Boxes can pump out power as per the claims.
    The flip side is your engine will be as good as SCRAP in few hours of using them.
    So they set it conservatively.
    Example -

    Box A claimed on website of an increase in Power & torque of upto 40%.
    We did the Dyno for it.
    Result -

    Box Max Possible power - 106hp,
    Max Possible Torque - 246nm

    Stock car -
    Wheel hp - ~ 80hp ( 90hp company claimed at crank)
    Torque - 184nm ( 209nm Company claimed at crank)

    Box set for usage - 91hp
    Torque - 225nm

    As you can notice they can set it high by damaging the engine.
    However they are sensible enough & are setting it to around 15% of the current engine numbers.


    Yes, the mechanical losses in the Front wheel cars are less than 15% as noticed in our Dyno runs.

    MJD-I is 5 injections per cycle.
    However Punto 90 has 6 Injections per cycle.
    MJD-II is 8 injections per Cycle

    We did dyno runs for all the Boxes.
    We are not authorized by the Sponsor for revealing them to any one.
    Once we complete the test we have a time of six months to wait before we can publish them.
    After the six months time you'll see the DYNO charts of all these companies in this thread.
    1 person likes this.

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