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bi-turbo MJD- Possible?

Discussion in 'Engine Compartment' started by Yagnik, May 20, 2015.

  1. Yagnik

    Yagnik Timido

    Messages:
    19
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    Hi All,

    Was just curious, is there a possibitly to add another turbo to our existing MJD engine? thereby making it a bi-turbo diesel engine! This along with a remap, would make a serious hot hatch!

    Let me know your thoughts on this!
  2. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Thats an interesting thought. Although I don't know how to accomplish it. :D
    One low intertia turbo, small one for lower rpms and a bigger one for the higher bands. Like the Saab 9_5 mjd bi turbos. :watching:
    For suitable re-maps look no further than our esteemed Rajiv and team. :)

    Sequential Turbocharging..
    prabhjot likes this.
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    @Yagnik

    There's not the slightest chance of anyone other than Fiat themselves attempting it, imo. And, probably not even Fiat. Why?

    It will workout too expensive for the diesel-engined car prices that prevail in these segments. Afterall folks buy diesels almost entirely for fuel efficiency and cheaper fuel and/or fuel subsidies.....

    Introducing the mjd2 injection system would seem to make more sense (similar torque at 20% lower rpm-s etc), but then fuel quality issues, and cost issues probably prevent that too, at least till the former are sortedout (by 2018, government policy?) and Maruti+Tata express a market need for the engine as well. On the assumption that AT LEAST the cylinder head, possibly the cylinders themselves, certainly the ecu......and not just the injectors would be very different and much more expensive to make here. @asimpleson, what would you say, is that assumption on cost valid?

    Mefeels the t-jet, and hopefully an excise-duty-benefitted 1.2 one (the same 1.4 with changed stroke/bore) in the Evo and Avventura would be all the performance potency this mass market will bear at viable prices from Fiat. And there's always the Linea t-jet 1.4....and the upcoming Abarth-s Evo and 500.

    Of course the 1.5/1.6 mjd would be nice, but that it seems will appear and is needed more on the all-new cars (new b-suv/'new Avventura' for end 2016, all-new Grand Sienna in 2017, maybe a small India-made Jeep in 2017) than the current ones. The Linea is at the end of its market-life cycle, great relative to the competition though it remains, and its the only one to really need and be able to justify price-wise the bigger diesel.

    SO: we'll have to wait till end 2016/2017 for a more powerful diesel from Fiat/FCA (and Tata? Maruti S can afford to sell a few cars with the imported 1.6 mjd it seems, or so they think, and are betting)
    Turbothinghy and asimpleson like this.
  4. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    I guess simpler modifications are possible and our friend @Yagnik possibly wants to address the turbo lag. Unless fundamentally the engine could breathe better without compromising on performance in overall rpm range, bi-turbo is the only way, coupled with better ECU maps and perhaps better gear ratios or gearbox suitable for 0-100 times.

    Modding is not super expensive, although the term 'expensive' is subjective. ;) With turbos manufactured here already, best to develop and implement a low cost version that can do the trick.

    Although it could well involve using two different size turbos or in parallel twin configs depending on engine type and manifold and space restrictions.
    prabhjot likes this.
  5. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,446
    delhi ncr
    @asimpleson @Yagnik

    Hope the 1.5 mjd, when it ineveitably comes, hopefully late-2016, will have fewer turbolag 'problems', not that it is a real problem, just that folks, incited further by the automags pandering to the car-driver lowest common denominator, have made it into a basic expectation of engine-goodness. Perhaps through a different transmission and gear ratios: the 1.5 mjd one cannot use the current Palio one I believe, after all?

    The way to address it best is through supercharging, esp electric, which is what they're going to be doing on the next generation of petrols and diesels coming very soon....to Europe, America, Australia etc only, foreseeably, for the usual costing/pricing reasons?!

    Damn this market (culture, including tax regs), and its cost-'value' restrictions.
    :mad:
    asimpleson likes this.
  6. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @prabhjot, the problem in turbo lag and power output was evident on certain ghat sections, when I too could experience it first hand on the 90hp Punto as well. Its not about engine goodness alone, its about the fact that how well the engine is receiving air and fuel too. Its a gem on an engine, but a twin turbo setup could indeed do marvels even with the current gearbox setup.

    Itna CC me itnaich milega... :D
    --- Double Post Merged, May 20, 2015, Original Post Date: May 20, 2015 ---
    @gurjinder and @Italia-Linea , @vIjAy_kHaSa please comment further. :)
    Turbothinghy and prabhjot like this.
  7. Yagnik

    Yagnik Timido

    Messages:
    19
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @asimpleson , thats exactly my thoughts too. Aparently fiat actually has a twin turbo setup in their stable in the form of a 2.0 twin trubo engine, link below

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JTD_engine#Twin_Turbo

    what I was thinking is can we add an aftermarket turbo setup along with the existing turbo and make it a bi-turbo engine(considering the tolerence limits)? What is the kind of mod potential on the engine except for a remap?


    @prabhjot,
    yes this setup in our kind of market would be highly expensive and considering the sales, the cost factor isn't justifiable. Hopefully the 1.6 mjd makes things better.
    prabhjot likes this.
  8. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    3,000
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    I am not sure how easy it is. But it it definitely easier if doable than on a petrol engine. The key is to have the relevant maps too or in some cases buy a different ECU. That is apart from the modifications needed to the intake and/or the exhaust manifolds. I suggest you contact some tuning company and bounce this idea there and share your findings. Infact you can ask for a quote. Will need new plumbings, perhaps some nice SS pipings too.
    prabhjot likes this.
  9. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    A bi-turbo multijet or for that matter any engine is possible, for sure. If the intent is to do a project for fun then the sky is the limit. If we see things from the factory's perspective, then things start looking less viable, due to the addition of complexity and thereby cost.

    Speaking as a Layman, a VGT is effectively two turbos in one in itself. The vanes adjust at varying engine speeds so as to provide the effect of a smaller turbo (quicker response) at low rpm's and that of a bigger turbo ( higher flow) at high rpm's.

    BMW have put in 3 turbos in their top of the line 6 cylinder diesel engine. They can afford to put in that amount of complexity as they can charge a hefty amount of premium for it.

    A 1.3 Multijet with the VGT is a very good compromise as it is ; if we get the 1.6 VGT that just might be the icing on the cake.

    Cheers
    asimpleson, prabhjot and nkrishnap like this.
  10. Deepak

    Deepak Regolare

    Messages:
    456
    KA-30
    Bengaluru
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    Good vid on bi-turbo in diesel:

    asimpleson likes this.

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