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Battery upgrade

Discussion in 'Electrical Systems' started by amolmane, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. shashanknathani

    shashanknathani Superiore

    Messages:
    993
    Pune
    I changed my car's battery to Amaron 24+24 months warranty, 55DIN for 5000 after returning the old one... car feels fresh now... wat made me change it?

    1. Airbag failure message
    2. Immobiliser light on after vehicle starting
    3. To much time in cranking
    4. Brake light bulb went kaput, I was cranking with my feet on brake pedal and bulb got fused..
    5. Weak throw of headlights

    Thanks to italia_linea in helping ke get this deal

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
    3 people like this.
  2. bhai

    bhai Esperto

    Messages:
    1,183
    Ahmednagar
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    Amaron is for only strong cranking power.

    I tried 2 brand new batteries of Amaron of 12V 9 Ah for my Pulsar 220 Fi.

    Pros of Amaron-
    1) Higher cranking power & less spins of starter motor
    2) High life due to slow charging

    But Cons are -
    1) Power of battery is exhausted due to too much powerful cranking.

    2) Charging is slow as compared to Exide.

    I tried on my Pulsar 220 Fi. Engine cranks fastly. But after releasing starter,amron can't recharge quickly as compared to Exide due to slow charging technology.
    By using Amaron Fuel pump of 220 Fi get low current. So drop in performance.

    Moral of the story is
    Amaron 9Ah is suitable only for Pulsar 220 F (Carbureted) not for 220 Fi (Fuel injected)
    For Pulsar 220 Fi Exide is OEM & true fitment.

    BTW my stock Exide 50 Ah of my 90 HP gave up life.
    Replacing Exide Matrix 12 V 60 Ah

    @Shashank
    In my case no any symptoms of low battery as mentioned you in above post.
    Starter motor refused. Current flow is 11 to 12 V. All instruments are working.
    Only cranking is absent.
    Yesterday on highway it refused to crank.
    Thank God ! I could get engine crank by punching & shaking battery.
    Engine cranked but it in lazy manner.
    After starting of engine I returned at home without engine shut off.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  3. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,998
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Bhai,

    Din 60 is not company recommended right..?
    Dont you think it will be overkill for the punto..?

    Recently I found one member by mistake was running on Din 45 on his 75hp punto and has not run into issues except till the battery went weak.

    Anyways, he was also on exide matrix. I think anything above DIN55 is also a risk.


    :p heartsent for our mutual benefit .. !
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  4. Anup

    Anup Regolare

    Messages:
    303
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Can anyone please share where the Din60 series not manufacturer recommended ?
  5. GP_Freak

    GP_Freak Amatore

    Messages:
    240
    Chennai/Madurai
    Chennai
    Linea 1.3
    It puts stress in the starter motor when cranking. Not in the alternator. After cranking, more current from alternator will be used to charge the battery more. May be this could heat up the alternator.

    First i am not too sure about Punto. But for Linea, the recommended battery is a 60 AH battery. FYI, the swift diesels comes with a 65 AH battery and it can take Amaron DIN 74, which is a 74 AH battery. Linea will not take a DIN 65 or DIN 75 from Amaron. The MAX DIN series what the it can take from Amaron is a DIN 66 which is nothing but a 60 AH battery( which is again as per the recommendation in the owners manual )

    Dont worry about manufacture recommendation too much if you know your stuff. If not, its always better to play safe.

    DIN 60 is available only from Exide. Amaron does not have DIN 60. The difference between a DIN series and a normal battery is actually the physical dimension. Like recessed terminals in the top of the battery and a lip in the bottom of the battery. For this stupid thing, we need to end up paying more money for the DIN series.

    A 60 AH DIN battery will work exactly the same as a 60 AH normal battery ( say for example if both are flo series, or black series ). Some say DIN series have a beefed up plates in the battery, which is again a hear say and to be Debated.

    Now to your actual question. If exide didnt recomment a 60 AH battery for Linea diesel, then its the fault of Exide partly and partly on Fiat. Fiat is shipping us with 55 AH battery in a new car when it acually recommends a 60 Ah battery. Its a cost reduction measure and exide didnt take pains to go through the recommeded battery capacity for Fiat. More the AH, more the capability of the battery to store charge. But similarly, it requres more time to get charged on the same alternator compared to a less capacity battery.

    So if you are changing to battery say 100 AH for example, then the alternator will not have enough juice to recharge the battery to full charge. The result is early battery failure. That is why battery manufactures will not honour warranty. But if you are using a low capacity battery, then you are susseptible to damaging your electronics and your started motor.

    I may be right or i may be wrong. Please check the facts before you do anything :)
    1 person likes this.
  6. bhai

    bhai Esperto

    Messages:
    1,183
    Ahmednagar
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    60 Ah is allowed as per user manual of Punto.
  7. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,998
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Exide's fault? Exide recommended list I have seen and they are not wrong either. Battery dealers sell wrong batteries sometime to clear old stock on their shelf. If a battery production is stopped that is a different case as to why? For Engine / transmission oil; the manual mentions Petronas, Selenia everywhere. It means car is tested with that particular product and brand the grades of which are also mentioned considering it a more critical factor in everyday health of the car.

    I don't see how Fiat is at fault either, they will provide a workable battery solution with a new car and not the best in the market. All manufacturers do this to stay competitive price wise. Please document the case of a lower technical specification battery provided by Fiat with a new car. It will make a good lawsuit if provable.
    They have on their part as car manufacturer provided a battery check via OBD (EOBD2), which helps to pinpoint if a battery has begun to deteriorate, more accurately than a battery meter.

    I will be happy to see lower rated lower costing battery workable on a car, effectively saving to reinvest in a new battery slightly earlier rather than have a top notch premium battery that too dies prematurely due to external factors of usage and other faulty electrical components. Higher costs cover more marketing and profit and are like an insurance premium for warranty rather than an assurance and guarantee.

    Fiat has not compromised to make their cars electrically unreliable. The major harnesses and systems used are totally european in design and quality barring some negligible not so critical parts.

    Car electrical loads, alternators, starters, lights etc. are designed and tested keeping in mind the discharge rate also that should be right to keep the battery in appropriate levels of charge for maximum start-stop cycles conditions. If the discharge rate is high for the battery to copeup with, maybe more AH rated battery will help, but that also means a vehicles electrical system is inadequate or badly designed, which is nearly impossible in Fiat's case since in Europe due to their system of battery rating (law) which is much more practical, truthful and meaningful. Ah rating also is variable according to duration of discharge period. Therefore yet again AH rating or more AH cannot guarantee betterment for regular usage.

    As far a layman customer is concerned, unless he or she is a hardcore modifier, the battery should be cheap and good with lots of warranty period, and good service and stock network. The non-maintenance type batteries are better built with better material and technology and therefore come at a premium (a bit too much) which an end-user has to bear. It is a consumable after all, just like a tyre. And a definite percentage of total cost of ownership albeit small.

    I think we need to ask ourselves, what is good, good enough and excessive. Like for example wasting money over expensive consumables when regular ones work just as fine. It's not like we are purposely planning to push the battery to it's limits.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
    2 people like this.
  8. Anup

    Anup Regolare

    Messages:
    303
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Well Amaron do have DIN60 series, I got my second DIN60 series battery 6 months ago, 1st being installed on my Palio in 2007 and I threw the Exide 45AH battery which was really bogus one, exactly post 3 years(just 2 weeks before the 3rd service the Aribag Failur warning showed up, what a timing :mad:)

    Anyway coming back to the topic, the high AH battery will ensure quick start ups and longer drain period but this has a flip side, the Alternator takes a hit, the lesser AH battery is weak from the begining and well we all have faced the trauma of a weak battery, but to be safe and smart 55&60 AH makes sense if you don't have heavy loads(AMPS,Coustom Lights etc) if you have high power amps and stuffs max strech should be ideally 65AH.. 74AH vov ! seems a lot don't you think ? :confused:
  9. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,998
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Anup as said in the earlier post, higher amp hour battery will not guarantee longer battery life. Maybe the alternator can charge a slightly higher rated AH battery like a DIN55, but that is good only for custom lights, including halogens/fog lamps that can demand more load on the electrical system.

    Considering the battery prices, it makes sense to not even think of Din60 batteries. I recommend you to read this post..

    http://www.teamfiat.co.in/electrical-systems/10907-din50-battery-purchase-experience.html
  10. bhai

    bhai Esperto

    Messages:
    1,183
    Ahmednagar
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    Asked Ah rating of alternator of 90 HP.
    WM told Alternator of 90 HP MJD is of 105 Ah.
    Very strong alternator. It can recharge battery of 100 Ah also.

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