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Avventura Urban Cross Showcased at 2016 Auto Expo

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Murphy_Fiat, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. Tornado

    Tornado Superiore

    Messages:
    677
    Driver's seat.
    Western Maharashtra
    Avventura 1.3 90 HP
    No, they will not, if they bring Agea, Palio adventure, Jeep Renegade because, at present fiat doesn't have anything to offer in these segments.

    Since the re-entry in India, they have offered nothing but GC, 185mm GC first in case of hatch /sedan, 195 mm GC first in case of sedan, 205 mm GC first in case of Compact SUV, and now the Jeep GC.

    The most wanted segments Compact sedan, Mini SUV, D
    & more powerful sedan are conspicuous by their absence in their stable.
  2. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    Yes, because we are really SICK of seeing the same old PUNTO and LINEA shell with color-and-grill changes and under the hood changes. If FCA didn't listen to feedback about rubbery shifts, long clutch travel, under-powered MJD's and kept pushing the same thing on every product, then they deserve a whack on the back. So as my brother said -- don't try and redefine the market, do what market wants because former will definitely FAIL and the latter has a very HIGH chance of success. FCA has been trying to defend rubbery shifts and long clutch travel.

    My Guess is that even Renegade will be a DOA. I doubt it will sell in great numbers in India -- more because of dated looks compared to Eco and Creta. 500x would definitely have been a good competitor to both or even Duster. Hope I am wrong. If the design is a turn-off half the battle is already lost. A buyer with money is an impatient child and has no time to wait for FCA India to wake up from self acquired "SHAMELESS SLUMBER".
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 5, 2016 ---
    • Bye Bye Aegea/Tipu (Indiansed Tipo) till 2018. Now they have a new Product 125S and this will last till 2018. So more sales to Vernas and City or even Skoda
    • I would have preferred 500x to Renegade. A 4X2 and 4X4 option as an attractive alternative to Creta. Who knows, even TATA's pseudo SUV will be a winner.
    • GC is just going to be competing with BMW X5. Most cash rich will tilt towards BMW. Status symbol.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
    Anirudha Mukerjee likes this.
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,449
    delhi ncr
    Guys I've in my posts tried first and foremost to give an ANALYTICS of the Indian car market. Only then 'defend' FCA in india.

    Those analystics to me show, fully and totally, that not just FIAT but several other brands in India have NO hope-in-hell of making any money here foreseeably from retail sales numbers. As i keep pointing out: everyone barring hy and ms and mahindra loses money in India, and have been for MANY years, and even ford and renault-nissan survive financially (from india) on the basis of exports.

    As a stock market investor and analyst of markets and companies, I am increasingly convinced that the market place and indian car culture has become a near-oligopoly of 2-4 firms+mahindra, with 2 firms having 70+% share (and rising): call it 'network effects'+'herd effects' if you will?

    India is NOT an attractive investment market for cars, as an export-manufacturing base for low-end models, yes, not as a retail market.

    FORD and GM have recenty announced their withdrawal from the huge Indinesian market, as also the japanese one. Of course, each firm has its own history and export etc logic, but one feels certain that whole 'Emerging Markets' story for car firms (based on China and India and Brazil in......the 2001 to 2012 massive boom years) is over. Especially for European and American brands.

    So yeah, sell here ONLY what you can profitably export 'made in india'. Whether that is the Tipo/Aegea or instead the new Grand Sienna, the Mobi, the new Punto, the 500X or the Reneagde+C-Suv: i don't know, we'll see.

    Marchionne and FCA have massive growth prospects even in a slowing down China+USA and a rebounding Europe, and have large export and profitable sales prospects even in recessionary Brazil+Argentina. Unlike almost any other large hitherto fast growing firm, which are all beginning to see a sharp fall in profits and sales (with tons of written-off investments and higher discounts, not to mention over-dependence on just one or 2 markets and models): Hyundai-Kia, VW group, Honda, Renault-Nissan, GM and Ford too.

    Why? Because of the companies' recently-merged nature with very charismatic brands that are now, increasingly, getting the all-new models they need. With FCA's industry-best marketing and brand-promotion etc.

    So no, if i were FCA i would not be seeing the slightest evidence that the Indian market is of any importance for the fiat brand, lots that it is tiny even for Jeep, but plenty that it is for now a great, low cost-decent-quality manufacture-for-exports base.

    In any case, increasingly: outside of Japan FCA seems decided against seeing FIAT as a growth brand in Asia, in favour of Jeep, Alfa Romeo and in China: Chrysler too.

    IMO that is just correct: asia (not including china) is jap and korean territory, and there ain't nothing anyone can do about it! Witness Ford just quitting Indonesia, following GM. Witness the woes of all non-asian car firms in India.

    So, we should and can and will get what they can export in 2017/2018: new Punto, new Grand Sienna(?), Jeep C-suv, maybe Renegade.....? Hey, who knows, maybe 500X (i'll buy one even if it is launched here only in 2020! ;-)). Nothing more, or less!

    PS: FCA must pay no attention to the short-cut market research via fora, social-media etc. What are folks saying about the brand and its models etc? Since that information is totally mis-representative. 9/10 people with positive experiences and hopes for and from the brand Fiat will NOT even be considering one for future purchase. Social media talk, positive and esp negative, is cheap, indeed free. That means the market-research data coming out of it is hopeless in quality! Post-Kevin Flynn: Abarth. No sign of any positivity in sales, despite millions of page views and tons of on-line positive chatter. 'Crafted for Car lovers' campaign across media including billboards. Zero effect. Ford launched designed-for-India Figo+Aspire: failure. Tata: great new models, tons of marketing, revamped dealers etc, no improvement, only losses accumulating.

    Fiat has no chance of any success here, outside of internet fora and social-media: it's over, such as it was (great in the last 10 years of owning 6 fiats in our immediate family).
    jackharrisw, Navneet and kesav554 like this.
  4. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    I just setup a petition on change.org and recipient is Mangesh Kodalkar. Here's the URL:
    https://www.change.org/p/mangesh-ko...shing-punto-and-linea-shells-get-new-products

    Needs 4 signatures to be publicly visible.

    So let's create some noise with the hope that it just create some stir. :)
    Else, No hope. It's going to be indefinite rehashing and rebadging of the same old shells.

    @prabhjot -- As a buyer I am more worried about my cash than FCA's balance sheet :)

    Grand Sienna -- DOA.
    Renegade - Unimpressive looks
    500X - Yes that should have come before Renegade.
    Jeep Brand - Same old story. 1 Product rehashed for 10 years so same fate as FIAT in India
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
    pabhishek, Murphy_Fiat and vista7155 like this.
  5. avi_loveindia

    avi_loveindia Amatore

    Messages:
    108
    FiatLand
    Grande Punto 1.2
    I was hoping that Fiat will show Ottimo ,Viaggio,Ottimo cross vehicles just for the display since the have stall there. Fiat sales are low so as brand recognition. These cars would have some impact on media coverage at least for a company showing same model from say 3-4 auto expo.
  6. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    They keep displaying everything on their FB page and get one question -- When is it coming to India?
    jackharrisw likes this.
  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,449
    delhi ncr
    @rusticnomad

    Your balance sheet over time (as a car owner) depend totally on the balancesheet and economics of the company. A car is NOT like ANY other product, in some ways not like a house either. Because it is a highly depreciating 'liability-not-asset' that gains most of its 'value', esp in india, more than anywhere else in the world from (a) service+warranty+resale 'contracts', both formal and informal, stretching out over many years and (b) 'brand' status-and-trust-value.

    Fiat in india cannot, it seems, 'assure' even you (who will keep your Linea forever) since it does not make any money from sales and service, nor do many/most of its dealers.

    And you think that will change....just by launching 'new' models?

    Chill, sir, enjoy the t-jet, as i will, till.....the 500X comes (which is likely never! no business case whatsoever, afai can make out, as of today.) I do like the Renegade and the upcoming Compass too, both are/will be brand-new models, so i don't know about your 'rehashing the same model over 10 years' comment.
  8. rusticnomad

    rusticnomad Amatore

    Messages:
    144
    Indore
    Indore
    Linea T-Jet
    @prabhjot - Compass is any day "better looking" than Renegade. Somehow, Renegade is not to my liking.
    Yes, newer models will help the ever declining sales if they have the right "eye catching" product at right price and not a mere few mm GC correction or roof rails or a bumper /grill design change. Compass is better looking compared to renegade.

    As for dealer+W/S. Dealer in Indore has shut shop as they were incurring 5 lacs loss per month, being located in most posh and central locality of the town. The loss figure was told to me by workshop guys. As of now, I am not aware of the dealer has shifted to some remote corner of town or he is selling/clearing stock from their TATA setup because Fiat India website shows no dealer for Indore. Same dealer has setup for Jaguar, Merc too.

    Talking to W/S guys on prospects of W/s closing too some day, he said that workshop services vehicles in good numbers so that possibility is dim. But, 3M guys were removed long back from their setup. So, not really sure how long the W/S also would persist if the dealer finally calls it a day. Mails to FCA regarding Indore dealer query gets no response. So, basically all FIAT owners in Indore, as of now, are hanging in mid air between the "three imaginary pillars" of Mr Kevin Flynn.
    prabhjot likes this.
  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,449
    delhi ncr
    I understand, i feel for you sirji (and myself+dad too when the same happens in dilli ncr, which it won't?):

    we are witnessing, experiencing PERHAPS the death FORETOLD, i would NOT at all say SUICIDE as you are implying, i will say, instead: the KILLING of the brand in india, partly abetted by FCA's absolute unwillingness to bet a useless excess of rupiaiyya-s on India etc.

    It's business, it's not easy. Indeed, in the indian car market, it is easy only if you are suzuki, hyundai and possibly mahindra (though signs aren't that healthy for this last's future), maybe toyota+honda (in the not-near future).

    Hey we're not alone: ask chevy, nissan, tata, bmw, even ford, and esp skoda+vw owners what they're going through in many cities such as mine (Gurgaon)?

    @rusticnomad
    rusticnomad likes this.
  10. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    @prabhjot, then let FCA concentrate on niche car sales like Abarth, Jeep and some such. Why the pretence of 150 dealers etc ? Make profit via engines and retain the true enthusiast label. Dont skimp on features like ESP/all round airbags in the process of making the Abarth Punto affordable. People arent buying it much anyway.Atleast give the enthusiast his/(her?) due !
    asimpleson and prabhjot like this.

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