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Avventura Urban Cross Showcased at 2016 Auto Expo

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Murphy_Fiat, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,998
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    Why do they consider Rapid/Vento instead of Linea? Smaller, more agile, more premium fit-finish feel? What perception, what reality?

    How much unsafe are other cars? What is at large buyer's perception of safety in India? Do they REALLY care soo much for safety?

    What is their TRUST LEVEL in Fiat as a brand and what is it with others? Are current Fiat products indeed perfect for selling like hot cakes?
    Is the service quality consistent, and are the showrooms so evenly and widely dispersed?

    Do the dealership businessmen line-up for Fiat brand? If not, why not? Is the company pre-requisite for space and investment criteria a logical one given its own standing in market for people to line up to partner up via dealerships?

    Traditionally what happened to the Mumbai market which Kevin Flynn very recently said is causing them considerable sales deficit? During Tata-Fiat days where there not strong dealers (players) for Fiat who had a presence and holding of their own; at-least in Mumbai? Why have Fiat not been able to hold to these dealers when separated? Who did these (not so small time) dealers hold on to?

    Aren't Fiat sales for Punto-Linea much better in topology where congestion issues are still lower and people definitely need to travel longer distance for work, where safety and fuel efficiency and self-driven is a relevant fact?
    In which case wouldn't it be advisable for Fiats to have a clear distinction of products based on user groups and geographical conditions and have an even better value proposition of cost restructuring and selling premium stuff under Fiat umbrella at par or better than VW/Skoda, being the change that it (probably) aspires to be?

    Is the battle against Suzuki Hyundai and such completely lost and does it REALLY interest Fiat to compete in...idk "the petty race":rolleyes:

    If the space between budget and premium is not good enough a market and has considerable challenges, what then should Fiat be aiming at? Aim above and higher than the VW group portfolio? With what?

    Should this market battle be fought with all available consistent rapid salvo or just occasional burst of fire aimed at who knows what and to what effect of market or territory capture? The French have aimed at a clear direction, haven't they?

    Why is Fiat re-sale worst that Skoda/VW even if it means its marginally worse? Is it at the end of the day, the German engineering effect (not that it doesn't deserve the respect, price premiums be damned)?

    Was it not it's duty to get the mighty small mjd atleast to feel better in the low end irrespective of engineering facts and challenges; which could be one less reason for some hip crowd to reject it?

    Pardon my leading questions milords, hope they are relevant..:joyful:
    acechip, prabhjot and gpunto75 like this.
  2. kk27

    kk27 Amatore

    Messages:
    202
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Fiat Enthusiast
    Well everyone can ramble on & on about 2 cars, no marketing, re-hashing & all bits & say that Fiat is a Dud. Well guess what, they're still here, they're still doing something with further re-hashing i.e. spending money... which is not to say they're selling off inventory to pack off. A smart company like Fiat will rather simply clear it off with large discounts & won't spend on Auto Expo either.

    They're setting up Magneti Marelli factory here too, again while it's a component specific they're investing money. Means they're not packing off & probably will make further money & while other players might look down on Fiat it'll keep registering profits & give a silent slap to all! Globally FCA is forcing it's hands on major manufacturers like ford, it has a sound strategy in India as well & If it was me at the helm of India specific affair I'd do much the same rather than blow money over useless new models which will beat down my profits for years to recover.

    They know very very well this market, hence they underplay it by not spending dubious amounts either in marketing or bringing in totally new platforms here. They understand it so well that they are at the end of the day registering profits overall & at the end of the day that is what matters.

    Passion is good for business but so is sound practical outlook & smart moves, also many a times it's always better to be fishing at the shores rather than venture into a stormy uncertain sea.
  3. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

    Messages:
    2,998
    Heptanesia
    Linea 1.3
    @kk27 how easy it would be to ignore if Fiat is or was a 'Dud'. On the contrary the whole focus of discussion is what is so secretively "SMART" move or non-move by Fiat. Get your understanding straight about the forum members by and large. Everyone wants Fiat to succeed. Maybe they ridicule it at times a bit too much, but how does it really matter. The crux of issue is car sales and not mere business bottom-lines, and it is very possible we don't know yet their global strategy soo very well; who claims he knows it all?

    But does it mean we do not discuss the market realities?

    EDIT: Personally I am very glad people present with utmost objectivity Fiat's probable POVs or other market realities. Nothing personal. :p
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
    avi_loveindia, prabhjot and gpunto75 like this.
  4. SwifttoPunto

    SwifttoPunto Novizio

    Messages:
    47
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    Certainly Fiat is making profit out of India operations and it may continue to do so for some more time. But there are two more aspects which I or any other customer would be interested in.
    1. Are they making profit in India out of vehicle sales. Answer is NO. Even in case of profitable geographies, management would look into segment performance and tomorrow it may say let us stop selling vehicles in India, because that business segment is making loss. Then what would happen to customers. That is where we want Fiat continue to be successful in vehicle sales also. Also I am sure Fiat fans want them to continue to sell vehicles so that they can continue to associate with that brand. Even if management ignores, I don't think dealers will stick to the brand for long if this state of affairs continue. Even we want some decent resale value after few years so that we can upgrade.

    2. If they are not successful in selling vehicles, for sure management will not approve any future products for this market. So, if we want to upgrade we have to see somewhere else.

    We are happy that they are making profit, but what is in it for us. I don't have their shares, but I have their vehicle.
  5. Murphy_Fiat

    Murphy_Fiat Superiore

    Messages:
    648
    Trivandrum
    Trivandrum
    Linea T-Jet
    Now I am Getting a different feeling altogether for Urban Cross. i am the one who likes to read each and every comment getting for fiat product in news or similar sites. on forums i can clearly see informed buyers are saying Urban Cross is a flop already, but on news sites and some of my whatsapp groups people really liked the urban cross they even went to say finally fiat brought something good :arghh:
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,444
    delhi ncr
    They've just invested 1700 crores in the new Jeep assembly line. That line will no doubt be a more or less cutting-edge WCM one. There will be a Jeep C-suv at prices BELOW the Fortuner: i.e., priced between a XUV500 topend and the Fortuner, and will have pretty-assured export numbers.

    They will localize manufacture of the 2 litre mjd, which tata will also use. Readup, guys, on that engine, then compare it to the Tata and Mahindra engines' power, torque@rpm and most importantly: emissions-performance.

    Demand for the mjd family WILL, inevitably, rise not fall (adjusting for price of fuel etc). And one supposes that the 2litre mjd engines will be exported in large numbers too, since demand for it in the Italian-made 500X and Renegade and upcoming c-suv+the utility vehicles is large globally AND FCA europe is moving up towards euro6 even more advanced diesels 2.2 litre and 3litre v6 for alfa, maserati, jeep, ram+fiat professional, given the european cost structure and esp given new european regs on emissions. btw, apparently FORD India too is making India a base for diesel-engine (rather than just car) exports.

    Suzuki will NOT be replacing the 1.3 mjd with one of their own for MANY-a-year, most likely never, since in say 5 years' time it'll be the time of the micro-, mild and full-hybrids. Then there is the new Magneti Marelli plant jv with suzuki making amt-s which too is a HUGE business, assured and with a long future that has only just begun.

    i.e., the India business is on the soundest of footings, relative to the record of ANY other non-Suzuki, non-HY+Mahindra one.

    What's more am VERY hopeful of a Jeep entry-level model in the 12-16lakhs range below the C-suv: it is indeed on the cards as Marchionne himself and not just him (from fca) have stated as being under serious discussion. AGAIN: huge exports, decent Indian-market numbers (?), and sellable in India well-beyond the tier 1 cities.

    SO: the issue is NOT the fca un-willingness to spend and commit to India.

    It is about whether the FIAT brand is too fallen-behind and -by the wayside (among buyers, dealers) to try any further for the Fiat brand rather than Jeep and exports, engines, amt gearbozes etc.

    I'd say if (say, just as an example) Tata+Fiat+Chevy were to form a sales and service common JV then: yes. Dealers' risks would be lowered. Buyers' fears and insecurities would be somewhat-alleviated. etc.

    ELSE: the vicious circle of the 'image, confidence and trust-deficit' would inevitably void ANY go-it-alone retail and service strategy for a weak and small-sales brand like Fiat (or Tata or Chevy or indeed Nissan etc).

    OR: FCA persuades suzuki to retail and service Jeeps (and future Fiat models) out of the NEXA platform?

    What they will likely end up doing by the time the c-suv launches in 2017 is: a few cities with sepearte Jeep Destinations dealerships, with other cities combining Jeep retail and service with Fiat ones. The idea being that Jeep may be able to support independent dealers and service in a few places, and elsewhere Jeep volumes and margins will shore-up struggling (albeit low-cost) smaller-town dealers and ass centres. That MAY work, may be enough IF they do indeed plan a proper mass-market Jeep too (say at 12-16 lakhs).

    The investments in new models for the Fiat brand is likely NOT the issue. Which is why they're still sticking to the story of the 'third pillar' of all-new models for 2017 and 2018 (new Punto, new Grand Sienna, new Avventura...?) Especially not if they also have exports-to-europe planned for say the new Punto.

    The issue is ONLY the refusal of the market to give the brand and its dealers a chance-in-hell of long-term financial viability let alone health. We can say the Fiat new, post-going-inedependent strategy lacked 2 or 10 new models, 2 or 10 better attention-to-detail, sure. BUT the attempt was made, a half-decent-one as far as i can tell, even on the advertzing front let alone dealers and spares and service. And yet!

    IMO they must must seek out a combination with other small/weak-dealer firms: i.e., tata and/or chevy being the best options, alongwith an e-commerce+third-party servicing+99rpm retail push. Tata too is still in the very-early stages of a brand and new-model recovery, and it is hardly going-well. Chevy too will be re-launching itself practically come 2017/2018. They too suffer from the exact same 'symptoms' as Fiat-since-2009, at the dealer and service level.

    btw, the Chevy dealer in gurgaon shut down ages ago. The old Tata Motors (+fiat for a time) one, Dhingra, has as well, and a new replacement has begun operations. They were pretty steady and ok, still. The FIAT one, very mediocre, is hanging-on too, and then for service there is the relatively-excellent-and-reliable DRS fiat.
  7. Tornado

    Tornado Superiore

    Messages:
    677
    Driver's seat.
    Western Maharashtra
    Avventura 1.3 90 HP
    One of the reason why fiat doesn't sell much here is because life is not 'all that important thing' in India.

    But there are few people like us who give importance to the life, and mefeels if fiat doesn't bring something to upgrade for atleast us (TFIns), while upgrading, we will be left to chose cars from VAG, Ford stables and change the name of this forum to www.team vff India. com.

    To conclude, I will say, Fiat India is not serious about the concerns raised on this forum.
    Anyways, thanks fiat for bringing existing models because I was able to afford them & could choose one of them. But if in future, if my financial situation improves, I will have to say goodbye to you.
    And if I hit a huge jackpot, I will definitely go for Cherokee or wrangler. whichever has better off road capabilities and import Agea or 500 X or Renegade.
  8. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    At the end of the day, the buyer must make a judicious call. The pros and cons of buying a Fiat car are there in volumes in this THREAD itself, not to mention this forum overall.
    If someone wants a powerful hatchback/crossover and doesnt care too much about ASS (not that there is much to worry) and resale, he should go for it eyes closed. But that is not to say that the other cars are devoid of merits.
    A person buying an i20 Elite/I20 Active or a Baleno over a Punto/Avventura is not a fool. His priorities are different, and that reflects in the sale of these cars. OTOH, it is clear that Fiat's priorities are not to "sell" cars as such. Therefore it is not right to blame market forces. Market forces are shaped up by those who create the market in the first place. No one in the general public was clamouring for the creation of a trouble free, smooth ,modern car back in the early 80s. But the Maruti 800 happened due to various forces (a long story) and it changed the Indian automobile industry forever. And we all know what Fiat did after that with its "PAL". That was the beginning of trouble for brand Fiat. They simply havent recovered or made enough amends thereafter.
    vista7155, asimpleson and Raj_pol like this.
  9. kk27

    kk27 Amatore

    Messages:
    202
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Fiat Enthusiast
    My last post on this thread...

    Those complaining of new models etc.. think from a business sense perspective. Would you if you were head of the Fiat India now think about blowing money on Fiat Brand revival & hurt your good balance sheets or Think of how best you can survive till the markets are ripe enough the brand is strong enough the buyer has priorities different enough than resale value to then slowly trickling in models & investments. This market is currently for "micro Suv & pseudo Suv" where even a car like Scross with the hailed 1.6Mjd has not met expectations.

    As i said, sometimes it's better to fishing on the shores than to venture into a stormy sea.
    prabhjot likes this.
  10. Aviral singh

    Aviral singh Amatore

    Messages:
    164
    lucknow
    lucknow
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    I have invested ,8, lakh on a hatch I wud have to aited and bought a duster instead ,but then now I am happy,will keep the car for 5 years ,will keep it forever,and I don't care if they have only two models but my next car would be any other European brand ,if Fiat is in the same position,I feel very annoyed when my neighbor compares amaze petrol to punto ,they say unki gaadi lambi hai hahahahaha,lambi gaadi toh desire bhi hai,but then ,all the best Fiat.
    prabhjot, kk27 and Raj_pol like this.

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