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Avventura Urban Cross Showcased at 2016 Auto Expo

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by Murphy_Fiat, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. nbvcrao

    nbvcrao Amatore


    New versions or models, if any, are coming up...


    Shall give a thought. Thanks for the advice.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    delhi ncr
    So: we are agreed then? By unanimous vote: Pack Up Fiat!

    An independent dealer network with much-improved after sales and spares support, as well as industry-leading warranty policies? Done.

    India-special/speicifc total revamp (more than simply a facelift) of the Punto and Linea? Done.

    An interesting, capable and ravishing-looking crossover in a burgeoning segment with no presence of the big-dada-s (Maruti, hy and Mahindra), the Avventura? Done.

    Several ad campaigns+youtube and facebook activity and activations? Done.

    Most of all: Abarth, t-jetted?! Done, and how.

    NO positive effect whatsoever, for cars that remain by-far the sturdiest, safest, best-riding/handling etc, best-engined etc. Not to mention as 'hot'-looking as ever.

    Best of all, or so one would imagaine: cut-prices a lakh or two below the inferior best-selling models. discounts galore. Effect? sales drop.

    And we want FCA to take 'risks'? You mean all this stuff has cost them nothing, shows no interest or commitment, no willingness or ability to put-their-money-where-their-mouth-is?

    It's daft to expect Fiat to venture further in the Indian car baazar. And will be daft of FCA to bother. I like that they are (hopefully) just-pretending that all-new models will be coming in 2017/2018. Pretend away, fca india, until you no longer need to? Carry on being a beautifully :zombie:brand.

    PackUp FIAT, indeed! It's as obvious as a 'patthar pe lakeer', THE writing-on-the-wall. :yawn:

    BringOn JEEP, i say, including a smallish, very price-warrior model, to do battle with the duster, xuv500 and creta, to go with the c-suv at say 18-25 lakhs? Offer the all-new MOBI/new Punto/new grand Sienna/new Avventura to TATA for sale under their brand. TATA needs to replace the BOLT and Zest etc with a next-geneation. They have at least some modicum of brand-goodwill-and-trust still intact, and apparently have 3000crores worth of commitment towards lifting themselves back off the floor, including new-and-'improved?' dealers and massive marketing spends. Future Fiats in india should be made by fca at the jv ranjangaon plant but for....the Tata brand, while the same vehicles are exported under the Fiat one? Current fiat owners can be shifted back for ass purposes to the new and improved(?) tass.


    And no more :blackeye::hungover::inpain::depressed::dead::banghead::arghh::grumpy: (for them and for us) trying to do what is clearly beyond their means: reviving in India, re-achieveing the good-old, glory desi-days when Fiat was an Indian object of Indian affection/modern-identity.
    Turbothinghy, nbvcrao and dadasaheb like this.
  3. Tornado

    Tornado Superiore

    Driver's seat.
    Western Maharashtra
    Avventura 1.3 90 HP
    Most of the car owners here have MJD (punto, Linea, Avventura), what the heck Fiats have to offer them as an upgrade over their existing car? Wrangler?J GC???
    Are we existing fiat car owners in such financial state so as to afford such an upgrade?

    So mefeels, fiats have shut the shop for we, the existing owners of the fiat cars atleast.

    My father's age is 63 years now, and he has decided to retain the Avventura for next 12 years, and then it will be retained as antique piece.

    @CEO fiat India, just check if you can sell your steering wheel & suspension to Asian automakers, thus you won't be blamed for financial losses & Ranjangao facility will also get the required bussines.

    PS : @CEO FIAT India, if you can import Agea's grill just for Auto expo 's sake why didn't you imported whole Agea car?
  4. kk27

    kk27 Amatore

    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Kandivali - Mumbai
    Fiat Enthusiast
    I totally agree with Phrabjot, they've done everything they can for this market but it will never be enough since even if they launch a so called crowd puller it will not pull any crowd, even after they launched a car which so called "Car Enthusiasts" were waiting in a style & with numbers beyond expectation even from the wildest imagination what happened??? Now pls dont tell me that it's a re-hash Coz when the Evo was launched .. everyone expected it to launch with T-Jet engine, so when they did put one none responded. Then again the same bloody saga of it's a Abarth but the GB is not good? So a i20 sport with "Handling not good" "dynamics not good" "suspension not good" "steering not good" is still fine since it sells in numbers but, thousands of effective Abarth sales got hampered by a Gear Box!!!

    Lets just imagine that Fiat did launch a new 4lac car at the expo available for booking. Like how it happened for Avventura.. there will be a lot of buzz & interest in the market, it will be praised for its stunning looks etc & the market will be eagerly waiting for it. When it will launch the same story will repeat. "For 4/5lacs its safer to go for M & H" "resale is a problem"... "same MJD why not new engine"(but the same MJD in Maruti is great & reliable engine which doesn't need to be changed"...

    Even if they launched with a new engine... "it's a new engine, better to see it's reliability for a year or two".

    In simple words, This market is not fit for manufacturers or cars which focus on finer aspects of engineering & driving dynamics of a car. This market is totally driven by "if my neighbour & his neighbour has it... it is a safe bet" it's the same for Hotels too - there's a pathetic hotel called Bhagvati in Charkop so much that i'd not eat it's Pav Bhaji for money (it was once a very good one for Pav Bhaji). But there's a whole waiting line almost every weekend which totally makes me & my wife surprised...as to who's the fool here! us or them. And there's this stall guy which makes very good pav bhaji but never has a crowd!! so again it gets me thinking who's the fool here.

    Fiat's story is much they same... The stall guy who has only 2-3 distinct varieties of Pav Bhaji, which is amazingly tasty... but the crowd puller is M & H like Bhagvati even though it's much tasteless.
    Turbothinghy, prabhjot, Rama and 6 others like this.
  5. Mabams1826

    Mabams1826 Amatore

    Fiat Enthusiast
    It's really to difficult to convince some one even if you have a good service centre.
    My close family friend has sold his I 10 and looking for upgrade and honestly he doesn't know what he wants in his new car!!! He has travelled in my Linea and both he and his wife are extremely stasified. I had made him test drive Punto Evo and Aavy as well as had seen new Linea, he feels all are extremely good but not committing for buying.
    For eight lac he wants a core with bit more space than Evo and he feels Linea is too big, but also thinking about Rapid and Vento.
    Most of the buyers have I20 Elite and now Baleno in their mind when they come to see a Punto and hence the issue.
    One consolation is since I had to take him to Marvel, Erode couple of times, came to know that there is some decent sales of Punto, especially three to four vehicles sold in a same area because they driven Punto of their friends and liked it very much.
    prabhjot, Ravi_M, Raj_pol and 2 others like this.
  6. gpunto75

    gpunto75 Amatore

    Grande Punto 1.3
    Start genuine spare sales over the counter at FASS, keep spare supply constant, entrust the prospective buyer that the car will be taken care anytime any garage with spare availability, entrust him that his 8 lakhs will not be a waste. An then here I'm giving at least 5 customers to Fiat every year, they don't need to advertise any more. I'll shout for them.
    I want to convince my friends/relative leaving no ground for any excuse.
    avi_loveindia, prabhjot and Ravi_M like this.
  7. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Punto Evo 1.3
    I beg to differ as I already have - what the Fiat team lacks in India is marketing spending money without understanding what Indians want is not going to help.

    A few pointers - India as a market does not care for safety period. So advertising safety will not help as it is a feature that Indians do not want.

    So what do Indians want - here are my pointers.

    1. Automatics - Why? Simply ease of driving in our overcrowded cities. The market is huge for automatics - includes ladies, and older men/women. This is one area that has been totally missed out by Fiat though year on year there is a huge demand increase for the same.

    2. Looks - The first thing that anyone notices in a car is looks - rest everything is satisfactory. As I have said a hundred times in this forum and others driving a 75 BHP car does not make you an enthusiast. You have to be kidding me if you say that. The only car that will in hatchbacks for now is the Abarth. So drive dynamics, feel etc does not matter. Like mobile phones the outer shell has to keep changing every 5 years. This is where Hyundai is extremely good and Maruti is starting to follow them.

    3. Portfolio - Fiat has a portfolio of just 2 cars. (Both these cars are literally unchanged from the last 7 years). How many pieces do you expect to sell with 7 year old cars. The old timers will remember that Fiat actually used to push decent volumes in 2010/11 period. This is 2016 and you are still giving me the same cars and expect people to buy.

    4. Abarth - I had mentioned in this forum that Abarth would sell 50 to a max of 100 pieces a month. I can see quite some people buying Abarths and showing interests in the same. Also most reviews have been positive for the car. Expecting volumes out of a niche sports car is ridiculous.

    5. Avventura - Never understood the reason behind the same. To me it looks exactly like the Punto with slight differences. As I said looks matter and if Fiat was thinking of competing with Ecosport it was ridiculous.
    On top of that Fiat as usual bungled the release by having no top model in petrol.
    Look the Creta for all it's faults is a good looking car and hence people buy. Most of them would be used to drop the kids to school, take your wife out for groceries and at best a weekend ride. Who cares about ride quality and driving dynamics?

    What is a real effort?

    For my friends who are cribbing about Fiat's efforts look at it this way - Maruti who has half the market in India could not sell a capable vehicle like the S-Cross even after immense discounts. The Ciaz is the end product in a long line of sedans which failed before they tasted success. The SX4, the old Baleno and even the Kizashi were duds. Yet they persevered. In the same time frame Fiat has been selling the Linea unchanged. Where the hell is the effort?
    Hyundai failed with the Eon - now it is a moderately selling car, yet they are always chipping in. The older i20 was not a massive hit. They took all the feedback and have improved the car and so they are reaping the benefits. Fiat started with Punto about time they started with the older i20 and what do they do - in the year 2016 they humiliate themselves by trying to sell the Punto Pure. This is 2016 and my car does not have Bluetooth music streaming - I am sorry I demand them and the bottle holders along with the ride quality.

    p.s. My thoughts and I might be wrong is that a lot of well meaning thoughts in this forum come without any background of marketing. if you disagree just look at Donald Trump - marketing might yet make him the President of the United States.
  8. nibedk

    nibedk Regolare

    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    @prabhjot @kk27 Well I hope we all are talking on how FIAT can win over the "Mango Aadmi" if not hordes of them atleast reach 2-3% market share and then build on that isn't it??

    Now lets c what Fiat did this Auto Expo. Launched a full sized hatchback for 4.49/5.59 L. Great isn't it?? Renault launced Kwid and has taken the market by storm. It gives them some time to replan their future. They may launch newer vehicles and with Kwid having been lapped up my Indian "Mango Aadmi" and Duster already a hit with the elite mass chances that the next few launches may have reasonable success.

    Fiat doing the same should actually work?? Yes rite ... No its a resounding no.

    Lets analyze why? Its the same old Punto which has been there for a decade now and costs a lots cheaper. Now lets see how folks react to this. For the elite mass who considered Punto/Evo ever and wanted to own one but have not yet got one either due to peer pressure or are still undecided will think why the hell the same car is being launched again and again in different avatars. Confused they head somehwere else.

    The "Mango aadmi" anyway never warmed up to Fiat. People in smaller cities and town never considered Fiat anyways and their risk taking ability is anyway a lot lower than folks higher up in the soceity ladder. So this cae will never ever be in theri list. They have the Altos, i10s and Kwids to choose from. Why bother about Fiat. Do you think these type of buyers are concerned about saftey, engineering, driving pleasure and stuff. The interiors of Punto GP sucked 2 years back when I bought it and it sucks even further on the Pure/Active variant. Competition has moved ahead a lot. Even Kwid looks more intresting even though quality wise Fiat will still be ahead.

    Its been 20 months of ownership and mind you I own a 90 HP GP so the top most models. I still can't beleive that the interiors belong to the premium hatch back category. It is feature rich no doubts(at least has all that I need) and quality is fine as far as longevity is considered. But the it really feels two rungs lower when compared to competitors. The color combination and the feel just sucks. Everytime I enter the car it doesn't feel a special place to be in till I start the motor and hold the steering.

    So who is the target audience ... the cabbies??? Well Linea Classic failed already .... why keep repeating the same mistake?

    Urban Avvy or Cross whatever it is. Its more than a year since Avvy was launched. If they wanted to have two versions they could have come up with both at the same time giving the buying public an option . Avvy is a failure and any further rehashes isn't going to work.

    Jazz had failed earlier and the second coming is slowly turning into a failure. Except for the first few months sales has started dwindling and just because its a Honda it sold few but in Indian automotive history it will go down as a failure.

    Had they given two options for Avvy right from the beginning they may have been able to sell a few more copies. I had Avvy on my mind but was just rejected because from practicality point of view there was no point in having a hacthback which isn't city friendly as its trying to project itself as an SUV. I may have bought cross if there was one when I bought one. I know quite a few who thought the same way. So they are again late by an year lauching the Cross. Avvy itself was a delayed launch and Cross comes almost 2 years after Avvy. Great strategy.

    Now coming to the current owners of Fiat(new and old). In the last 10 years since Punto/Linea were launched Fiat may have sold around 4-5 lacs copies. May be another 10-15 lacs who own the older varieties like Palio/Adventure/Petra/Sierra etc. This number may be higher and this is just a guess.

    Dont you think at least half the Fiat Owners would be considering moving to bigger/better car. I for example am looking to upgrade mostly in 2018-19. And let me be very clear that it will not be an upgrade because I would want one but rather becasue I would need one. I will mostly retain by 90 HP GP unless its gving me a lot of problems. Touch wood last 30 K KMS has been niggle free.

    I will be looking @ something which has enough boot space( 500 L and more) and space enough to adjust 3 folks @ back including a car seat. I do not think Linea will suffice my needs. And I am not really looking at spending anything beyond 18 lacs. Do we have any option in FIAT? No currently and as per their plans I will have nothing else other than may be Jeep which will be way beyond my budget.

    So what esle do I have as an option? A Ford or a Skoda or a VW? I wont be buying a VW/Skoda for sure though they make great cars and nothing in Ford except Endevour. Looks like I will have to check a M or HY or a H.
  9. Sujit508

    Sujit508 Amatore

    Bangalore , Karnataka
    Retro / Classic FIAT
    I dont think they have sold more than 1.5 lac cars (punto+linea). 1st year as soon as they launched punto , their sales was 3000 per month . later this started dwindling to the current 800.
    So approximately 2009 ~ 36 k + 2010 ~ 24k + 2011 ~18 k + 2012 ~12 k + 2013 ~ 12 k + 2014 ~ 10k + 2015 ~10k =
    122k copies. that is it .
    A similar number for Palio platform is what I am guessing. So all in under 3 lac fiats .
    prabhjot and asimpleson like this.
  10. SwifttoPunto

    SwifttoPunto Novizio

    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    I totally disagree that Fiat has done everything that they could have. First they should understand the market and put some real effort to address it. If Swift, I20, etc. are selling in large numbers there is a genuine reason to it. People in India are not so dumb to go by herd mentality everytime. Let me explain this in the backdrop of my experience.
    1. In India people give most importance to convenience and practicality. A well engineered car if it does not address these two points it can not sell.
    2. Fiat is known for driving dynamics, ride and build quality (exterior only). But that itself may not create easily huge identifiable difference in the mind of a buyer.
    3. I had two Swifts (one diesel and after that one petrol) and I did not have a SINGLE niggle or problem during that ownership. Among my relatives and friends there are many marutis Alto, 800, Omni, swift and Wagon R, none of them had any problems. So I or any of these guys can easily vouch for reliability of Maruti vehicle. I really appreciate Maruti has such a quality check before vehicle rolls out or delivered to customer by a dealer. Whereas when I bought Punto when they delivered vehicle they said it has 5 ltrs of diesel. I drove around 5 kms and the new vehicle stopped in the middle of the road. I had to ask couple of bystanders to push the vehicle to side. I had pick my daughter from school for which I was already late and school administrator was calling me 10 times to say daughter is crying as it is already very late. Of course SA came very fast in a Fiat595 (but 5 kms in Bangalore ORR/Koramangala traffic still takes some time) and filled some diesel. But it already created some bad feeling in me. Why cant they do that last minute quality check? Within 2 months of ownership I already have following issues: Left pulling (not gone even after they said they corrected it), one parking sensor stopped working which they replaced now, central locking seems to have stopped working, MID fuel consumption not showing (it was showing 9.5kms when I bought and even now it shows same, never changes), etc. It is new vehicle and just two months old. This explains the reliability.
    4. Practicality. Most important is service centres and I will not explain this as everyone knows. Other aspects (my comparison will be limited to Swift): Indicator stalk - off course we get used it (I am used to it now but still not convenient), but a person who goes for test drive will be ok with this only if he is comparing it with other European or US cars, otherwise this qualifies as a disadvantage.; Long clutch - I took one month to get used. A person if he has to decide with a test drive, he would not feel comfortable with this.; Gear box - when people compare it with any other similar hatchback in the market, it is easily a negative, ladies and aged people certainly do not like it; Steering - We love it, but people who drive most of the time in city only, find it hard.; central locking - if door has to be opened, driver side lever has to be pulled. once the person gets down, to lock driver side door I have to open it and then close (let me know if there is any other way).; Inside light/lamp - why it has to be so complicated to operate, single light with simpler 3 stage operation was what needed.; Key operation - there are only 3 stages, if music has to be operated it has to be in stage 2 where all electric functions are operational, whereas in swift there are 4 stages, stage two will play music only which is really a usable feature.; Spare wheel is not an alloy (for few people this is also a comparison point). Let me stop, because there are some positives also which will offset other few negative points.

    5. In business you have to give importance to feedback of a person who rejected the product as much you give importance to person who bought it. Many times people give more importance to feedback of the person who rejected it. I think Fiat is patting on its back saying it has a very good product and complaining on people for not buying it. All the above small negatives together easily gives favorable verdict to swift/I20 as compared to Punto. I dont know if Fiat is taking feedback correctly and incorporating it. For example, when GC issue was reported they suddenly increased it 185-195, who actually wanted it? Swift has 170 and during my entire ownership it had scraped only twice (yes I remember exact number of instances). Fiat decided to give full black interior and they gave even the roof in black. During summer it creates so much heat inside and also does not feel airy at all. There are many cars with black interiors (even swift has black interior) but atleast roof is white to give right amount of mix. Then the other Punto has white soft touch plastic on dashboard at a place exactly where if children sit in front keep hands on. That portion generally gets more dirty in the front than the other parts. Then many reviewers told Punto is underpowered, so they decided to give most powerful hatchback, knowing that it wont sell in numbers. I am not complaining on this, but just that these steps are certainly not towards achieving numbers.

    6. Fiat has just 2 vehicles Punto and Linea. Ok let me talk on left pulling issue also. I guess when they changed from left hand drive to right hand drive, enough modification and testing has not been done. That is why whatever done at dealer level will not rectify this. So where fiat has put genuine efforts to our market? Not from products fronts and not in addressing requirements of people.

    I am not a Maruti fan or Fiat hater. In that case I would not have bought Punto by selling Swift. I am happy with Punto despite all the above points. But that feeling comes only after couple of months ownership. How a person test driving the vehicle will get convinced? So, Fiat dont pat on you back saying your vehicle is very good product and Swift/I20 is tiny cans. They are much more suitable and better products on a overall basis and hence they are selling in such numbers. If Fiat's products are strongly built, like curves and highways, not convenient to drive in cities, then focus on rural/semi urban market. Either product is targeted to wrong market or product itself requires attention.

    Even future products (if any planned genuinely) need to address these practicality and convenience aspects, otherwise don't expect any change.

    I hope Fiat does not take wrong feedback go Ford way. Ford lost its build quality (new Figo + Apsire), drive line any other car in the market (from Ecosport onwards) and attitude of dealers really sending many prospective customers away.

    Jeep brand will not change prospect.

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