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Automotive psycology, philosophy & salavation

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by ENKI, Jan 14, 2012.


Best 4 Door Sports Saloon in the World

Poll closed Jun 1, 2013.
  1. Maserati Quattroporte

  2. Porsche Panamera

  3. Audi S8

    0 vote(s)
  4. Jaguar XJ

  5. BMW 7-series

    0 vote(s)
  6. Mercedes-Benz S-Class

    0 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Best 4 Door Sports Saloon in the world

    Yep, cast your votes for the best sports saloon which has everything in it you ever wanted (viz. looks, luxury, style, dynamics & heritage). Pls let me know which one of these haunts you in dreams. I am helping you out with the main contenders, price in UK pound, specifications & price. We won't talk about control, cabin noise, rear leg room, boot etc. etc. because it turns out that we are yet to drive anyone of these because of their insane pricing in India. What i am sure of; it's completely subjective who likes what because all of them are terrific machines. If one lags somewhere, it surely leads something else. All have their own USPs & loyalty/follow-ups among their buyers.</SPAN>
    It’s in the order of my choice, you need to tell yours. No diesel trims included (only Gasoline!).</SPAN>

    1. Maserati Quattro Porte</SPAN>

    In the UK, the launch line-up consists of the £80,095, 404bhp 3.0 V6 S, and the £108,160, 523bhp </SPAN>3.8 V8 GTS</SPAN></SPAN>

    The V6 is awesome at the price. It rushes this mammoth of a car to 100km/hr in just 4.9 sec with peak torque at 1700 RPM with 27 MPG economy. It lags by just 0.2 secs by the GTS & not too much behind when it comes to top speed, so hardly any compromise for performance. Q S4 is favoring itself everywhere wrt GTS. Top speed comes at 191 mph to 177 mph. Don’t go by the power ratings of the engines, 3 Ltr V6 is extremely fast & great VFM!!The Quattro-porte has grown in length over the previous version for rear space. Like an expensive Italian car, very quiet interiors with Carbon fiber inserts, lot of legroom unlike earlier Maserati’s where sporty character dominated everything. Another USP for MQ is </SPAN></SPAN>Fastest 4 door saloon in production today in GTS disguise with top speed of 307 km/hr</SPAN></SPAN>.</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>

    Not everything is good about new Quattro-porte. The top trim is demanding a bit of premium but only returns nominal performance edge. That is expected from an Italian car which is not FIAT! The earlier Quattro Porte was a looker & seductive. This is rather a safe approach but still easily the most charming looking Saloon on date according to me.</SPAN></SPAN>
    Mq1.jpg Mq2.jpg Mq3.jpg Mq4.jpg

    2. Porsche Panamera
    A lot of trims from </SPAN>3.0 V6 S Hybrid 4dr Tiptronic S Saloon</SPAN> £86,476 (0-100 6 sec, Top speed 167 mph, FE at 39.8 mpg) to </SPAN>4.8 V8 GTS 4dr PDK Saloon</SPAN> £90,409 (0-100 4.5 sec, Top speed 178mph, FE at 25.9mpg) to </SPAN>4.8 V8 Turbo S 4dr PDK Saloon</SPAN> £122,623 (0-100 3.8 sec, Top speed 190mph, FE at 24.6 mpg).
    One can see, it directly competes with the Maserati at performance & pricing. It’s a throat cutting competiotion between these two masterpieces but MQ wins for me because of it’s looks, exhaust sound & Italian roots. The top model do perform impressive but at a whopping price!! Still it is way better proposition than Mercedes S65L because that may cost you kidneys.</SPAN>

    This car always challenges my theory for Quattroporte being the best 4 Door Saloon simply because a better value for money. The head says this is the one because of slight performance edge of 0.1 sec but Quattroporte simply set the tones of the strings of the heart & i become headless & mindless. The best interiors by far than any other saloon except Maserati (for me). Very modern & organized though too many buttons for my taste. Still must be a lovely place to be inside. Having said that Maserati is lovable for it's quietness & very expensive material used inside which ensures like you are riding nothing less than an Italian car.
    PP 1.jpg pp2.jpg

    3. Audi S8
    3.0 TFSI Quattro Executive SE 4dr Tip Auto Saloon</SPAN> ranging from £58,305 (0-100 in 6.1 secs, top speed 155 mph with FE at 32.1 mpg) to </SPAN>6.3 Quattro LWB 4dr Tip Auto Saloon</SPAN> £93,465 (0-100 in 4.7 secs, top speed 155 mph, FE at 23.7 mpg).</SPAN>

    Great looks & Amazing VFM when it comes to lower trims with best performance at the price!! I am a mum fan of Audi & it's a bit understanded when comes to large saloons.</SPAN>
    AA1.jpg AA2.jpg

    4. Jaguar XJ</SPAN>
    Price ranging from economy models like </SPAN></SPAN>5.0 V8 Portfolio 4dr Auto Saloon</SPAN> at </SPAN>£72,780 (0-100 in 5.7 sec, top speed 155 mph, 25 mpg) to </SPAN></SPAN>£92,480 5.0 Ltr V8 Supercharged</SPAN></SPAN> (0-100 in 4.9 secs, top speed of 155 mph & 23.4 mpg).</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>

    The 5.0 ltr V8 supercharged loses on performance & pricing. Though any british would swear by a Jaguar like they do on UK Topgear & Autocar, i don't think it's anywhere near to Quattroporte or Panamera. I simply like it's lower trims with very reasonable pricing & average performance. Still a good looking car & worth a contender for lower trims for all mainstream brands.

    JXJ 1.jpg Jxj2.jpg

    5. BMW 7-series</SPAN>

    740i 4dr Auto Saloon</SPAN>
    ranging from £59,655 (0-100 in 7.2 secs, Top speed 155 mph, FE at 28.5mpg) to </SPAN>760Li M Sport 4dr Auto Saloon</SPAN> £100,745 (0-100 in 4.6 secs, Top speed 155 mph & FE at 21.7 mpg). </SPAN>It loses to Maserati & Panamera for best of all worlds. If you get performance, you lose on pricing, top speed, FE etc. If you take the advantage of pricing, you lose on everything else. What the hell was BMW thinking?
    bmw1.jpg bmw2.jpg

    7. Mercedes-Benz S-Class</SPAN>
    S350 Blue EFFICIENCY 4dr Auto Saloon</SPAN> ranging from £62,120 (0-100 in 6.9secs, 155mph top speed with FE of 37.3 mpg) to </SPAN>S65L [630] 4dr Auto Saloon</SPAN> a whopping £163,385 (0-100 in 4.4 secs, top speed 155 mph & FE of 19.8 mpg). </SPAN>Anyone can see the insane pricing of top model for nothing!!!</SPAN></SPAN>

    The lower trims are VFMs but Audi leads here with ease. There is hardly anything to describe except same boring looks & an under performing car, it has to be a default entry into the list for me. Mercedes is the one to invent "CAR", have rich history & tradition for big cars though it's not moving up with times. Still i am the one not to forget the things so easily. Mercedes deserves every bit of credit for it's contribution to the automotive world.

    mb1.jpg mb2.jpg
    1 person likes this.
  2. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Only 6 votes so far:confused:

    Are we really auto-enthusiasts or next door grown up Indian, ignorant by nature & just like to praise his possession like TV, fridge & Linea/Punto obviously?
    Come-on guys, be sporting. I have always believed that people loving FIAT cars must have some automobile awareness.
    I may have to change my view because i am among lots of FIAT fans right now:p.
  3. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Who is your favorite auto journalist?

    The question came about when i read 90 HP vs D 90 review on one of thread (Source overdrive.in). We refer magazines like autocar, top gear, overdrive etc. here to know about the cars. If you scratch your mind, did we ever refer an India auto-journalist or even remember one, i don't! That is self explanatory how bad the auto journalists standards have gone into India. It's not even ZERO but into -ve territory.

    Thanks to the internet era, we don't need to get along with such underperformers & rather privileged to read/watch some pure auto-journalism.
    Individuals who have started their career as an auto journalist with magazines but along the time, they have grown beyond the magazine itself. They are followed pretty much like an auto brand, have their own fans & all of them are best in their own sense. Jeremy clarkson is one of them & the most famous one.

    Let me know yours, if any. Mine ones are below as per the order mentioned.

    The Fifth Gear Team:

    1. Tiff Needell:

    This guy knows to drive!!!! Have wonderful driving skills & exceptionally talented when it comes to cars. This human found the hidden code of his DNA & do what he is born to do, to be an auto-journalist. The way he tunes his body language with the emotions that oozes out is fantastic. He may not look most elegant & funny of them but he is my favorite one. I will tell you the reason later why he is my favorite & not some other bigger name & you will agree with that. What else than the basic lessons of drifting a FWD & RWD!!

    Watch this:

    like i believe, only passion along with fearlessness can do it...

    Fifth Gear's Tiff Needell, Actor John Barrowman, Survive Terrifying 80 MPH Crash</SPAN>

    I am glad he is fine.

    2. Jason Plato:

    This guy is Tiff's partner at Fifth Gear only. He is a professional driver so no surprise when it comes to his driving skills. The special thing is how he blends his talent with auto journalism. Now the core reason to like this duo, They are the only ones who are really fair & unbiased when it comes to domestic brands. Yep, they are the only british who can criticize a Mclaren/Jaguar or Land rover!!! That is the reason too of not liking Topgears trio because of their biased attitude towards an aston martin/lotus/JLR & Mclaren. The 458 italia is beaten by maclaren mp412c at only 1 test track in the world, guess where, Top-Gear test track:evilsmile. Not to mention that how each episode of Top-gear ends with an Aston Martin or JLR, doesn't matter what the episode was for. They also seem to be arrogant with some of their statements & insults other countrie"s auto brands too much (Especially America), it generally goes overboard.

    3. Vicky Butler Henderson

    Simply like her being a too good driver with so much passion for cars, unique case for a woman!!

    4. Steve Sutcliffe (Auto-Car UK):

    No comedy, no overacting, very professional, focussed on exactly what he is supposed to do & that is to test & review a car, did it & Left, Simple!!
    Deeply analyse with in-depth knowledge of cars & leave no stone unturned!!

    5. The TopGear Trio

    (James May, Richard Hammond & Jeremy Clarkson):

    It would be unfair if don't mention them but i would never watch these guys to know about a car. They are wonderful entertainers, makes you laugh your heart out with somewhat auto-theme included in the scene but never expect a serious review!!

    I admire James may most, may be because he is a bit of underdog of the three. But This act of James May earned him lot of respect, the best auto-journalist of the topgear trio... wow!! What a feat to be at 418 km/hr & what a machine!! This is masterpiece of a technology!

    Richard Hammond also not far behind!

    & couple of blasters from Jeremy!!

    1 person likes this.
  4. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    What is it:

    It's JEEP CHEROKEE, Not JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE. It's a replacement of JEEP LIBERTY with a new name.

    Why it is important:

    It is slated to launch in India in the segment of CRV, Fortuner and bla bla.. This is a GLOBAL AVATAR of JEEP, their global approach to suit everyone's taste. It's completely opposite to the philosophy of earlier Jeep models famous for butch looks and Offroading dominating Onroad dynamics completely.

    How it is different (American buyer):

    Lookwise, it's subjective. Americans are raged over this new design pbhilosophy (According to them, it carries a feeble body language like Korean/Japanese stuff, They compare it to Nissan Juke. However Chrysler says that Devil is hidden beyond looks, it is made of 70% of high strength steel and a modular frame most rigid in it's segment. They bet that without compromising off-roading capabilities, they have vastly improved it's on-roading on par/better than European SUVs.

    How it is different (View of a potential buyer):

    At it's cost (24000 $ for 9 speed 4X4), it beats hands down all competitors, at least on paper. World's first ZF 9-speed auto improving fuel efficiency, FIAT's multiair technology extensively used with best FE and specific O/Ps figure of Torque+power. That is obvious, isn't it? 2.4 ltr with 182 hp and Most Trail rated in it's segment with best claimed 4X4 system, Active Drive Lock 4x4 system with 4-Low and rear locker. The Jeep[SUB]®[/SUB] Active Drive II 4x4 system with low-range is great for rock crawling and has a neutral mode for flat towing behind an RV. The single speed Jeep[SUB]®[/SUB] Active Drive I 4x4 system with brake traction control is ideal for those who want something easy-to-use with all-weather capability. The industry-first rear axle disconnect[SUP]+[/SUP] feature only engages 4x4 when necessary for greatly improved fuel efficiency. Tight 37.6-foot turn circle+, factory rear locker, 56:1 crawl ratio+, skid plates, 20-inch water fording capability+ and off-road suspension with one-inch factory lift.

    Why it is entertaining to me at all:confused::

    Never gives a damn about SUVs because of overwhelming body roll at speeds, it uses Compact wide C-Evo platform of FIAT. It is exciting enough to see it evolving into SUV segment. The cars so far spawned on this Plaform are Alfa Romeo Giulietta and Dodge Dart.. Some serious cars!

    The good news is that it is gathering some real positive reviews in the media. For India, not a bad vehicle by any means representing an affordable TRUE JEEP. Grand Cherokee is falls more into niche category.

    My Inputs:

    Could be better looking! It looks good in person than photos according to media reports but i somehow feel that Italians could do a better JOB by mixing their flowing instinctive curves with a butch off-roader. They could try to look it like a Junior Grand Cherokee in their own way. Other than this, i feel it must be a cracker of an SUV by what it looks on paper.

    All-new 2014 Jeep Cherokee: Mid-size SUV Sets a New Standard

    First Drive: 2014 Jeep Cherokee
    New Testament: Unorthodox crossover could attract new followers to the off-road fold



    Jeep-Cherokee_2014_1024x768_wallpaper_47.jpg Jeep-Cherokee_2014_1024x768_wallpaper_06.jpg Jeep-Cherokee_2014_1024x768_wallpaper_27.jpg Jeep-Cherokee_2014_1024x768_wallpaper_05.jpg
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  5. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Maserati .... A car based on anti German and Anti Japanese sentiments!

    When Maserati decided to launch it's products into E-Seg. with a small car (Category of BMW Gran coupe, A6, Merc, Jaguar etc etc), i thought Maserati was well on it's way to downgrade itself. But it proved to be a very smart move by Mr. Marchione. He is slowly heading FIAT CHRYSLER into high margin segment which is generally above compact Segment. He betted on Maserati & Jeep to lead the way and was he right! Maserati released their plan of 50,000 units sales /year from 2012's volume of 6000 cars. More than 8 fold of increase. It was looking very difficult until new Quattroporte took off and Ghilbi joins it at just the right time. They have already sold 22,000 cars during last 6 months and there is huge waiting on new Ghibli. The plant in Modena is running at it's full capacity but the order books are closed already with overwhelming demand.

    It could easily be a failure because you hardly know what Maserati budget constrained Engineers come out with! Thank God, it seems they pulled it off. The Engine and 4 wheel drive both made by Ferrari, Ghibli is an absolute BEAUTY, typical of Maserati!!

    Those screaming twin turbo V6s can propel this car to 60 mph in just 5.2 (S) and 4.6 sec (Q S4). It is slightly expensive than Audi/BMW/Mercedes (say 10% premium) but people just don't care that for a Maserati. So all in all, my favorite brand seems to get better and better.

    Just for a quick look, Maserati in recent past never sold anything less than 1,50,000 $. From 2004 Up-to 2012, they were selling this...

    Maserati-GranTurismo_Sport_2013_800x600_wallpaper_01.jpg Maserati-GranTurismo_Sport_2013_800x600_wallpaper_19.jpg Maserati-GranTurismo_Sport_2013_800x600_wallpaper_18.jpg

    All said and done, i loved the way Maserati makes journalists lose their composure and come out open with their fanboyism. Where majority is still hummmm... yaaa... kind of who keep on explaining about a new viable alternative to German dominated market segment, some just simply declares German cars incompetent & boring to Ghibli:evilsmile.

    Some excerpts from a couple of reviews...

    However, both these machines look as pale as death in front of the glorious twin-turbo 3.0-litre V6 under the Ghibli’s sculpted bonnet. Designed by Scuderia engineer Paolo Martinelli and built by Ferrari at Maranello, the engine comes to life with a snarl so loud that you’d go back to the spec sheet to check whether it’s not actually a naturally aspirated V8.

    The resonant exhaust note will have your senses spellbound in a way no other engine in this class will ever even dream of doing. Add to this the fact that Martinelli has managed to squeeze out a good 100 horses more than the BMW 535i’s six-pot and 110Nm more of twist than
 the Audi A6’s supercharged lump, it’s more than enough to stir the Ghibli into 
a superlative performer.

    Executive saloon brawl: Maserati Ghibli vs BMW 5 Series vs Audi A6 - wheels.ae

    For me, there’s no doubt as to which car wins this three-pronged shoot-out. The Maserati Ghibli thrashes the competition in almost every department. Of course the 5 Series and the A6 are brilliant cars; solidly built, remarkably engineered and great to drive. But neither the blue and white roundel nor the four rings can hold a candle to the aura of exoticism that surrounds a glistening Trident. And when you can own one for the same money as a BMW that will blend into the cityscape and just a few thousand more than an Audi that is not as enjoyable to drive,
 the decision shouldn’t be too hard.

    Executive saloon brawl: Maserati Ghibli vs BMW 5 Series vs Audi A6 - wheels.ae

    Push it to the brink, and the Maserati pays you back with a connected brio the current BMW M5 can only dream of -- even if that Bavarian automaton may be objectively faster.

    Read more: 2014 Maserati Ghibli First Drive

    The dirty secret of pseudo-coupes like the CLS, A7 and Gran Coupe is that, for all their power and capability, they're not all that fun to drive:D. In contrast to those safely understeering, computer-gorged luxury shuttles, the Ghibli is a salty blast of Mediterranean air.

    2014 Maserati Ghibli First Drive

    Even more interesting is Ghibli's ad-campaign. My favorite one... "What happened to your luxury? What happened to you? Quite little boxes, looking just same to the next... Since when it became so difficult to tell our luxury cars apart... more like their Parking spaces. Has the passion died?" Wonderful lines!

    They put 100s of boxes with each having a small motor running silently on top of it. This is indeed funny... you must see it!

    They did a brilliant rip of "Beasts of Southern wild" where they compared German Auto industry to Giant and Trident strikes!

    Ex-CEO of BMW... now CEO of Maserati... Mr. Herald Wester... A typical Maserati fanboy making fun of German and Japanese cars openly.

    A clamp for silencing the engine... They also make fake sounds via speakers.... Maserati will never do this no matter what happens!!
    We forever reject and revolt to this... no matter what happens. These cars are even losing name... they are getting no's and letters now... hahahahaa!!

    A sexy car with secreaming Ferrari Engines... An absolute opposite of Ordinary!

    353397.jpg 354795.jpg 353383.jpg http---image.motortrend.com-f-roadtests-sedans-1401_2014_maserati_ghibli_quattroporte_second_dri.jpg
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  6. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    It was so awaited.... La Ferrari first drive reviews.

    Love the way these Auto-Journalist who otherwise care so much for not annoying VW, BMW, Toyota, Porsche etc... rediscover their human traits... don't give a **** when they review a Ferrari. They just can't control it. The inner passion, voice of truth of Homosapien takes over a programmed synthetic Being's behaviour & such statements come out from some of the world's top Auto Journalist...

    Magazine: Car and Driver (USA)

    Author: Eddie Alterman
    Elvis Costello once said that writing about music was like dancing about architecture. That there was no way to capture on paper a great performance’s sweep, its pulse, its emotional effect. We may have reached the point where cars are getting so outrageously fast and so deliriously powerful that they outstrip our ability to invent new ways of describing them. In some ways, writing about the LaFerrari is like playing poker about salad. It’s something that can’t be bound by the page; it’s a full-body experience. And yes, Mr. Redman, I survived it.

    Magazine: EVO (UK)

    Author: Richard Meaden
    "The hardware might be thoroughly modern, but LaFerrari’s heart remains a screaming naturally aspirated V12 engine. More like a force of nature than something man-made, it owns your senses, its pulsing beat sending all manner of subtle vibrations into you through the structure of the car."

    Magazine: Autocar (UK)

    Author: Steve Sutcliffe
    "However fast and furious and noisy and exciting to drive you might imagine LaFerrari to be, double it, add 20 and you might, just maybe, get somewhere close. The sheer thrust the thing can generate will scare most people half to death to begin with, for example, because it really is monumentally rapid. And it just never lets up. The acceleration, and the noise, and the violence, it all just keeps on coming at you, stronger and louder with every extra revolution of the crankshaft until the limiter intrudes at an ear-splitting 9250rpm. The first time I run it right up to the limiter in third, the hairs on the back of my neck sit bolt upright, and it’s all I can do not to start screaming uncontrollably for no apparent reason."

    Magazine: Car and Driver (USA)

    Author: Eddie Alterman
    "I’ve driven cars that have tried to kill me before, but none with such a vast resume of homicidal know-how. Some have threatened to slide off the road without warning, some have tried to collapse my organs with g-forces, and some have ached to impale me on their sharp interior surfaces. This one does it all." It is less a conventional supercar than a carefully orchestrated system of technologies resulting in something both brutally animalistic and mechanically pristine."

    Magazine: Automobile (USA)

    Author: Joe DeMatio
    "LaFerrari is no tree-hugging exercise with a prancing horse badge. This is a real Ferrari, the most powerful roadgoing Ferrari ever built and, surely, one of the most desirable. While the word “efficiency” is in every other sentence that comes out of the mouths of Ferrari engineers, they’re talking about efficiency of performance far more than they’re talking about fuel efficiency or emissions."

    You can sense that may be some of their future Europe/US trips may get cancelled by furious British, Italian (In German disguise?) and obviously original German auto-giants:D. Lies are not spoken with so much passion... Ferrari has made another masterpiece that super-car makers keep benchmarking for next decade.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014

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