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An all-new generation of esp. FCA-group petrol AND diesel engines

Discussion in 'Fiat Global News' started by prabhjot, May 6, 2015.

  1. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    @asimpleson @Raj_pol

    http://allparnews.com/index.php/2014/04/fca-new-engine-rumors-24960

    FCA has, mainly through the radical 'skunk works' (under Ferrari managers) i.e., secret r&d centre with engineers from across FCA working autonomously of the company, and yet with big budgets, for Alfa Romeo committed to a new generation of esp petrol engines, and also a new diesel V6 too.

    There will apparently be 2 families of engines: one small and the other medium. It is said by people in the know ('insiders', both Italian and American, who are members of allpar.com, the FCA/Mopar very high quality and deep website) that the engines will be designed in a modular way: so that for eg the same cylinder size can be used and power altered on different engines by altering the number of cylinders and by different combinations of: direct injection AND multiair electro-hydraulic i-vvt possibly for both intake and exhaust AND turbocharging AND (for some applications esp in the US) twin-turbocharging, likely with a partially electric turbocharger. Possibly supercharging, too.

    A hyper fuel efficient, yet powerful 3-cylinder version with most or all of the above will, it is rumoured come to about 1.3 litres and will eventually replace the t-jet(multiair).

    The engines are by design going to be able to be placed longitudinally or east-west, depending on the model.

    They will mostly be high power, hyper fuel efficient 4 cylinder petrols, big and small, with different turbos, some single some twin, some electric, etc.

    There will also be a very inexpensive, yet high-payoff-in-efficiency, mild hybrid, with small electric motors used for (a) electric turbocharging and (b) in the rear 'axle'/wheels to aid traction and 4x4, and to ensure efficient high torque right from 0 rpm.

    The engines are being designed specifically to ensure very high torque at very low rpms, WITHOUT sacrificing mid and topend power, and without a fuel efficiency penalty. Hence the use of elctric turbo-s and/or twin sequential turbo-s. And mild hybrid electric motors at low speeds/low gears/when traction is lost by the rear wheels.

    These engines are meant for shared common use, with branding variations, across ALL FCA brands, whether American or European, including Jeep but excluding Ferrari (ostensibly) one guesses.

    CAVEAT: these are more than just rumours but....less than certain detailed-facts.

    The first of this engine family will appear, it is said, when the Alfa Romeo rear-wheel drive d-sedan, on an all-new 'scalable' rwd platform to be shared presumably across FCA brands eventually, is shown in June this year, on the hundredth or some such anniversary of Alfa Romeo.

    The engines of all sizes and turbo-types will ALL be deployed by 2018, as new models and new nameplates are launched for all the brands.

    2018 is the last year of the 5-year plan that Marchionne has commited to repeatedly, including just last week, and which they are following more or less on schedule for all parts of the world since it was first announced a year or so ago. Marchionne will retire, apparently, in that year.

    The more excited among the knowledgeable folks on Allpar etc feel that these will, each and together, be the most radical and the best petrol engines in the world: they will meet and beat the nasty-tough CAFE standards for efficiency and emmissions of the US (much tougher than EU standards) and yet provide the high-power/torque for which italian and European engines are famous for, too.

    Also: it is quite clear that FCA under Marchionne will happily share these engines even with competitors, for a price and all else being equal, just as FCA famously shares its leading yet affordable small and big diesels with GM, Suzuki, Peugeot, Tata etc, since he has said so clearly last week.
    jackharrisw, gklc811 and asimpleson like this.
  2. kedarbendre

    kedarbendre Esperto

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    Until n unless we dont get such engine in India we are far away from the benefits of such master piece.

    When FIAT is moving forward with next genertion petrol and diesel engine we are still using F.I.R.E. engines from baba adam ka jamana.
    Raj_pol likes this.
  3. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    @kedarbendre

    the t-jet is also a derivative of the FIRE, which last is still a perfectly competitive engine in this market, and even in Europe (on the lowest-cost options), here where VW offers a 3 cylinder 1.2l on the Polo and Hyundai a 3 cylinder tiny diesel on the i10 and Xcent, a puny 1.2 petrol on the i20 etc.

    You're right these engines and this tech will not come to India, ever, especially not the big expensive Jeeps since here, almost exclusively, diesels are bought in the 'premium' space.

    Wish this market would get out of this diesel-centrism and seriously start patronising small (twin)turbo-ed, DI-ed + electric turbo and/or lowend electric torque type solutions, indeed perhaps the government can impose a higher spm-pollution tax on diesels to enable that? I suppose at some point Maruti Suzuki will make something of the sort happen, in a few years?

    Till then the t-jet at great prices! Which is not bad at all at FE. It needs to sell super when it appears on the Evo and the Avventura in a fe months time, less for Fiat/FCA's sake and more for the rasa/mazaa of the somewhat-wider 'market'.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    @asimpleson @gurjinder

    http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...supercharging-on-350-hp-alfa-romeo-giulietta/

    Wonder what the cost/price 'penalty' is for this tech, to be used on several of the new FCA engines apparently?

    Can you imagine even the 1.3 mjd with this stuff? Don't know if they intend deploying it on the multijet diesels, big and small though, assuming the cost is not prohibitive, eventually.

    Of great relevance to india imo on the mjd, given esp Tata and Maruti S's needs, let alone Fiat India's. No?
  5. asimpleson

    asimpleson Esperto

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    @prabhjot, they at Fiat (Magnet Marelli) are toying with their own forced induction concepts and some more simplified concept of this as I had shared before. This looks promising of course. And the following looks even better. We are happy either way if these find their place sooner in production cars. The quest for power and fuel efficiency will continue till they find something better in packing and delivering energy for intervals comparable to combustion engine range and acceptable costs trade-offs. Hybrids aren't as bad if they can package them for cheap. The benefits of torque ready electrics. ;)
    http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/f1s-hybrid-turbos-are-awesome-and-you-want-one-in-you-1464497196

    Atleast for Fiat yet they are betting high on improving drive-trains rather than buying too much into electrics which also means implementation of such technology in the mid term.
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
    jackharrisw and prabhjot like this.
  6. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    @asimpleson

    'Insiders' have been discussing on Allpar.com the new electric drivetrain they've seen (parts of) being develped and near-ready by FCA, for use across all brands, probably.

    On the diesel-electric train locomotive funda: big-enough petrol or diesel engine powering a generator which charges batteries (capacitors may be involved too) which power not just the 2 rear wheel occasionally for awd functionality and/or lowend high torque but in toto. i.e., NOT a plug-in hybrid, much lower cost than one, and without any direct connection between the wheel-motive-force and the petrl/diesel engine.

    The system seems to, in concept, be much cheaper than other all-electric cars as well as cheaper and better than other semi-hybrids. BOTH performance and fuel economy, WITHOUT an excessive price penalty and NO range anxiety limitations? Exciting, we'll be hearing officially from FCA on this stuff soon enough i guess.

    Though, it is also being said that there are other mild and/or 'very-mild' hybrid style use of batteries for supercharging and lowend motive force (overcome turbolag, increase fuel efficiency from a standstill etc) also ready and waiting to go with the all-new models coming up, first from Alfa in early 2016 and then several for the other brands.

    Fiats will, for cost/price reasons, probably recieve this tech last and least, although a very-mild version may make sense (depending on govt incentives?) on say the all-new Punto here in 2017? Of course such stuff, if not too expensive, can really add to the attractiveness of the 500 line-up of models in Europe, the US and, even more especially, China?
    asimpleson likes this.
  8. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    FCA has launched the new 2.2 litre mjd2 FiatPowerTrain (not VM Motori) diesel in Italy on the Jeep Cherokee.

    18 to 20% more power and torque, with higher torque at much lower rpms + Euro6 emmissionscompliant.

    They are claiming it to be (near)best for a diesel of its class, which seems true enough, if compared to the equivalent BMW, Audi and Volvo diesels.

    Am sure it's going to play a major part in the new upcoming Alfa Romeos too, as well as Maserati?

    Wonder if they'll offer it on the Grand Cherokee too, esp in India when it launches, the torque should be enough, presuming it to be a fair bit cheaper than the 3 litre one (i think) currently offered on this model in Europe? The kind of thing Mercedes did everso successfully on the new MClass when they launched it here, decimating the Audi, BMW and Land Rovers with its compelling pricing.

    Likewise they should perhaps offer the Cherokee (when it starts getting assembled here in late 2016?) with the 2.0 litre mjd they'll be locally making for use by Tata and the India-made smaller Jeep(s). That'll REALLY make the pricing subversive-of-the-German-models, not to mention Land Rover.
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
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  9. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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    http://allparnews.com/index.php/2015/06/patented-new-air-intake-system-28836

    A meaningful innovation in air-intake technology, that seems low cost-high yield, and that will presumably feature on the upcoming new petrol and diesel engines (2 families: one small with cylinder sizes of 0.33 litres each, and the other bigger one with cylinder size of 0.5 l each, both with turbo, twin-turbo and electric (?) supercharging), the firsts of which will be unveiled on the new Alfa Romeo sedan, on June 24th at the Milan Expo.
  10. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

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