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Adding capacitors!!

Discussion in 'In Car Entertainment' started by jayadev, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    First of all class D amps have an efficiency of 80% and whether or not they have excellent damping factor depends upon performance and not theory. Also remember a class AB amp will have better control rather than a class D.

    did u try placing the 0 gauge wires before reaching the conclusion of the clips breaking and all.

    Running at 1100 wrms i'm yet to face any such dimming issue with a 0gauge wire. So I take it as the battery can handle it. And I mean wrms and not peak watts

    ur level of therotical knowledge is certainly more than wht I can imagine and ever dream of achieving, but all these things are not purely theoretical, u need to do practicals before reaching a conclusion.

    Take for eg:
    If there is a tank of water and u need more water to flow inn from it, then u dont add another water tank to it, but instead u broaden/elongate the present pipe. Same goes here u need more current get better wire rather than another current storing device, as the flow will remain the same only storage will b enhanced which is of no use.

    Harmony & Choas
  2. jayadev

    jayadev Esperto

    Messages:
    1,057
    Kannur, India
    Kannur
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    If you add a reservoir tank at the end of outlet with clever design it can increase the pressure of flow which inturn will create more flow rate. it is not always only single solution for an issue there can be many depending on your imaginations.

    let us not measure the level of knowledge here and assess the practicality of subject.


    No i did not instead i could not as it is neither locally available nor i had the patience to wait for a week to get it from somewhere outside.
    At present i cannot go for change or upgrade of the cable rather i Opted for the best improvisation. after all it costed me rs.400 and little bit of effort. and results are good so i am happy with it.

    If it was for some body else like a friend or customer who is ready to spend a fortune then i would have used calculated value of cables and components quoting the time period and cost..
    78-80 percent is the ideal efficiency of class B amps. class AB has 60-70 percent. where as Class D has theoretical efficiency of 100 percent. but in practical they will hover around figure of 90 depending upon the design .
    I haven't measured the efficiency of present sony amp yet but i have designed one myself with simple 555 timer ic as ramp generator where i got efficiency of 85 percent . The control issues are all gone with history because presently we have precision components and good technology in hand yet those D class amp may not be as sweet as a Valve or class A design sure in high frequency region ,sure. but for a low frequency purpose nothing can beat Class D for amount of power and dynamics it can produce,the output is not sinusoidal as in other amps so largest and biggest current can be fed to speakers like a close contact switch via switched semiconductors.
  3. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    this is out of context. we add capacitor as we need sudden surge in power say during a heavy bass pump. capacitor stores this charge and as it is very close to amp and has very less resistance it discharges immediately and gives the extra power needed at that instance.

    you cannot wait for flow of current from zero gauge wires running from battery.

    a simple example similar to adding a capacitor is the the air box. yamaha rx35 has it too. when you suddenly accelerate this box discharges air immediately to compensate it.
    we cannot wait for air to flow from the big pipes to the carb,
    so this is kind of short burst compensation.

    but for low watts amplifiers and woofers etc capacitors are not that much needed as the sudden power demand is low.

    if you put a bass tester cd in you system, pump up the volume with your headlights and cabin lights on you will observe that the lights keep dimming at the bass punch.

    this you will observe even if you put a zero gauge wire.
  4. jayadev

    jayadev Esperto

    Messages:
    1,057
    Kannur, India
    Kannur
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    I am dead sure even adding a 0 guage wire or two of them will not solve the light dimming issue.I doubt those batteries are not at all good for dynamic load like that of amplifier which need low ESR and high energy density power sources to rectify such anomalies.
    Anyway we are not talking about far end remedial like that of 60 lakh and above car. we dont need those here.
    But as phew has said it that he does not face this issue there could be some fact in that too.
    Overall wiring harness of our punto or from fiat is not upto the mark as far as i have seen, but nothing to complain as it is not a high end car but economy product.
  5. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Please come and audition my ride bro and i'm sure u'll change ur last statement :), i'm yet to come across a punto suffering with the light dimming issue, even our fellow member nkapoor777 runs a powerful setup but haven't seen any such issue. So its kind of hard for me to believe as im yet to experience it.
    For me its always been practical knowledge over theoretical. I believe in achived results and not imagined assumption, for ur convinience i'll try posting a video and see if there is any sort of light dimming. Any specific light u want me to focus on.

    Harmony & Choas
  6. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    Phew, i dont know what exactly you tried. but my linea has a 4 gauge wiring, a perfect zero gauge ground a mid level 284 watts rms to 350watts rms sub and 2 100 watt rms components speakers.

    ok, now while listening to normal tracks on normal volumes there is no dimming.

    now when i put the heavy bass tracks and when my head lights and cabin lights are full on and the car is idling i can very easily see that the cabin lights are dimming.

    put you car in idling, put in a heavy bass track, increase the volume where you feel nice thump and then check the cabin lights.
  7. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Never knew one drives with cabin lights "ON". Just to reduce the dimming of the cabin lamp, which we switch on for just a few minutes and hardly ever with loud music, who in the world would use a capacitor pls "EXPLAIN" and mind u the dimming is not very drastic its just slightly, and if u r facing drastic fluctuation then I guess u need to check ur wiring and battery. And I am sure that adding a capacitor will not solve it completely, it will still persist.

    Just for ur reference I aswell use 0gauge from the battery to the amp and for ground along with 4 gauge cables and the amp gives 2x200 wrms to the comps and 1300 wrms to the subwoofers, there is dimming in the cabin light but not so much that I feel the need for a capacitor or any such device. one can satisfy himself but satisfying the need for everyone is a different thing all together specially for such a trivial thing.
  8. Italia-Linea

    Italia-Linea Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    2,123
    Pune
    DUDE ..no one is driving with cabin light on here. read my post carefully, i said idling. and i said put on cabin lights just to experience dimming.

    and i too dont have a capacitor, and i dont feel a need for so too. i am just explaining the use of capacitors. but you were pointing out that your punto doesnt dim lights even with such a heavy high end equipments which you have. this is not possible.

    cheers !! chill !!
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  9. Phew

    Phew Esperto

    Messages:
    1,109
    New Delhi/Mohali
    FASS
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Dude read my post carefully, I never said anywhere in this whole thread that my cars in cabin light never DIMS. Wht i'm explaining is simple " no matter wht u do u cannot get rid of the dimming issue". :)

    Read before u comment pls

    Harmony & Chaos
  10. jayadev

    jayadev Esperto

    Messages:
    1,057
    Kannur, India
    Kannur
    Grande Punto 1.3 90 HP
    @Phew , it seems you havent understood the point . I am very sorry to be unclear.

    The light dimming issue is as such not a big issue to make troubles in sound or to cause a big worry.. the setup plays well with very faint fluctuation in light not like complete darkness or dimming whle driving one can never notice. fluctuation is so faint that though i can sense it but it took 15 minutes for my wife to understand it. yeah she asked me why i am so much fingering already good sounding setup. so i had to try again and again with lot of music tracks . at first she thought it was due to vibration from the bass the light just feels fluctuating but later she got it when i explained how it is happening theoretically (she nodded yes, hope she did get it).

    @phew, again we are using capacitor not to compensate the fluctuation of light or other issues.Technically it have a slang called "stiffening " the power supply. At those high levels of dynamic requirement power amplifiers starves ,amps distorts the reason is long running cables which are more current carrying than voltage.

    theissues which i am pointing to may not be audible in regular boom boom woofers but discerning listeners will point it out seriously.
    I listen flat very flat, unfortunately my ice is not upto that mark yet it is alright at present so when i listen to low rumbling of bass in Preyasi track in Taal i do not want to miss out fuller lively drums i do not want it to sound as thumps or grunt.
    Similarly in Dil se chayya chayya track there are instance of low frequency of 20hz and below ,again i dont want to miss them too. These kind of sudden surges of sound gives unexplained excitement while listening .
    When there is a starvation in amp those low frequencies does not sounds right, they get mixed up .regular ice installers and listeners prefers great bass thumps for attention or some kind of pleasure which does not sound good at all to me. i have seen perfect boom boxes with two 15 incher woofers in 20litre enclosure which can shatter the glass of the car but these are not much of music but targeted towards attention seeking, no matter what you feed into it it sounds boom boom.Those kind of setup does not require any sort of refinements in power like capacitors, high esr batteries or power regulations etc..

    Capacitor which we are talking about is a kind of power refining technique which helps to smooth out the ripples in power supply, no matter what kind of ripples are in power source it will reflect in speakers hope you get it, as ultimately this battery power is what runs through your coil . lights fluctuates due to voltage drop no matter how negligible it is.
    we do not have dynamic volt meters but simple headlamps or cabin lamp to indicate that there is certain anomalies affecting subtleties of our sound.

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