Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by ramjn, Dec 11, 2014.
Why these mules with Apollo tyres ???
Whats the problem with Apollo tyres ?
Same question. Fiat knows what tyre to shod their cars with to match their performance. There are many parameters for a company to decide on the vendor.
@avi_loveindia .My GP 90 HP still runs on stock Apollo Accelare with few hundreds less than 20 K Kms mark. Trust me it strikes a fine balance between ride and handling. Hadling is top notch and can be compared to the very best. Hard braking is brilliant and grips the tarmac well. Ride well there are costlier tyres with softer compound and softer sidewalls to cusion the ride better. But trust me it comes at its own prices of punctures due to sidewall damage.
Wet conditions braking well is good enough. I have drove once in heavy rains( it was a deluge rather) and my car aqua planed once. Got my speed down 80 km/h and the braking was good enough. Never faced any other scare in rains otherwise. So got to accept that grip and braking is acceptable enough. Rain drive experts can shed more light.
Less road noise is something which if tops your priority list then Apollo needs to be ticked off your list. I for a change love the engine and road noise. I feel sleepy in a silent cabin.
Touch wood not even a single puncture till date. Thats what is @ top of my priority list. 13 months - 20 K Kms mostly on highway and weekend family rides without a single puncture. Brilliant handling and good enough ride. Good dry and acceptable wet grip. All of this under 5K. I dont think it as bad as it has been made out to. It has got a bad name as it comes as OEM fitment. Otherwise its a fine tyre by itself. On top of all this its very sturdy. Not a single puncture in half its life time.
My next tyre well its again gonna be a Apollo may be the Alnac range. Puncture resistance is something which tops my list and with my travel mostly with family on long trip roads, nothing fits my bill better than the Apollo.
Not anything wrong with that just a bit of noisy when speed catches up ,,, If rumors to be taken ,,135 horses will scream for more traction ,,which Apollo can handle but with a noisy price
I am a fan of Acelere.
My car has done 70K+ Kms with Apollo's and my third change will also be Apollo.
Hahaha I do agree with the the Prof (@prabhjot ) that our demands are never ending. I mean we are discussing tire brands. Imagine discussing the same with a Honda City - they offer 175/15 on their top models which is close to 11L on road in Bangalore.
Exactly... I feel people except a whole lot from Fiat... "Fun to Drive" yet good FE, Good traffic capabilities as well as highway drive.... the list just goes on & on.
As long as they dont expect the Fiats to come free, it OK to have a wish list
@Raj_pol @jumu @kk27 @prabhjot
I love my Fiat to the core but am no fanboy. I got a Fiat because I value safety and driving dynamics more than anything esle.
But lets for a moment think of as individual whoz there in the market to buy best possible car in 6-9 lacs range. He/She may stetch the budget if required as well. Now if we compare cars in that range each one will have a USP
Swift - ASS(Percieved) & Dealership Reach & Fun to drive
i20 - In your face styling. No doubt it will age sooner. But by that time they will have the next gen i20 ready. Interiors Quality + Features( Percieved + Few Add Ons which may or may not be useful + 6 Speed gear box + Stonker of a engine
Polo - DSG + TSI + TDI + Premium Interiors( best in class)
Now if you see most of the USPs are measurable except(fun to drive for swift. Even for swift due to the engine charecterstics( both diesel & petrol) seem more fun to drive south of 100 km/hr. These are the sane speeds which most "Mango" folks will do during test drives.
Now lets bring Punto to the mix
Lousy Gearbox(compared to competition) - Long throws, mechanical feel and the those unsorted gear ratios.
First things anyone who test drives the Punto will notice. This issue is more for newer cars. Gear shifts feels smoother once miles are piled up. My 90 HP had 20 K kms on odo now and any one who doesn't agree with this observation is either a fanboy or should stop calling himself/herself an enthusiast.
The Engine - Well this car is dead below 1.5 K RPMs. On plain roads there is no progress until you touch at least 1.5 RPMs. Its dead as duck. Period. On inclines and ghat roads unless and until you are above 1.7 K RPMs and not a good driver only God knows what will happen. Over a period of time depending on your driving style the engine response does change a little and feels more smoother. But below 1.5 K RPMs there is pretty much nothing one can do. Others have turbo lags but they are not as bad as 90 HP. the 1.5 TDI is absolute charm. The 1.4 CRDI does everything that 1.3 does and does it more effortlesly due the brilliant gearbox, 6 speeds. I cant vouch for the top speed for 1.4 CRDI/1.5 TDI as I havent driven them at insane speeds. But I do feel that in a able chassis they should be as good as 1.3 MJD if not any better.
One test ride and its clear to anyone that at city speeds its difficult to drive this beast. Enthusiats will rev up try at higher speeds and understand the behavior. Others will just reject it outright. "Arre Tata Nono bhi eese tez chalti hai"
Interiors - Punto just has Swift for company. Features and quality wise i20 trumps it. Quality wise Polo beats everything else. Only saving grace for Punto is MID and Blue & Me. I use MID extensively. Its a good feature to have . Never missed it on Swift and wouldn't have missed it on my Punto as well if it was not there. I used to log all stats for Swift manually and now for Punto use the MID + MyCar App. It has just made it easier for me to log all deatils of my car. Not everyone does it or has the time for it. So its more of a good to have feature than must have. All others cars have MIDs in some form. May not be as extensive as Punto but still they do have it. Blue & Me implementation sucks. Its has lot of potential but some how it has been not implemented well at least for the way we Indians would use it. I am not getting into the nitty gritty but I hope you all got what I meant.
Exterior - GP and Linea were classics. They do not show signs of aging yet. But Evo & New Linea are a pale shadow of former self. More bling
Ok so all things that can be measured, seen with eyes , felt by hands are behind the competion or lacking that premium ness.
Then comes the traditional Fiat strenghts. The reason why we love our cars
Build: Built like a tank. But how does one feel it. There are two ways. Go and bang the car and vouch for what you see and feel.
Lift the boot or bonnet and feel the weight. Some people figure out the good build quality. Others will think due to heavy weight FE wiull be less. But not everyone who test drives will try this. Closing of doors. The thumping sound can point to godd build but i20 Elite and Polo are oh so close now! One needs to test this one after other to feel the difference.
Ride and Handling: On our well paved roads near the dealership and at speeds slower than 80 km/h (usual speeds near dealership) all cars will behave mostly similarly. To see the Fiat handle and ride like charm one needs to travel on bad roads or at speeds beyond 120 km/hr to make out the difference.
Brakes - This is the only area which can be felt during test drive. Others car barring the swift do quite a good job as far as braking is concerned. Anyway folks are more worried about 0-100 timings rather than 100-0.
Lets not bring pricing to the mix as fiats are usually sold at discount most of the time. We have extended warranty which is better. But its always in news due to wrong reasons. ASS is iffy almost everywhere in India. First people who buy Fiats are nore aware than others. They are even a willing partner during servicing and maintainence. Last but not the least the service folks never give their 100%. They will give you at least one reason to compaian about in each service. Be it washing or billing or diagnosis or fix or no fix at all. But they do goof up everytime without fail. I am not saying other ASS are good but less aware owners + ass experience + owners not allowed in service areas usually gives a perception that others are better.
Steering - Well one really needs to understand how a HPS behaves to fully appreciate it. 99% of folks think that its not a power steering. Rest 1% buys it only for this sole reason.
I guess my analysis says it all. Its not like one can not live with these shortcomings. They do not affect the complete ownership as much. But still they do not provide complete satisfaction as well. Secondly Fiat doesn't do anything to improve the weaknesses or change the perception. At least they should have advertized the sorted out gear ratios of Avvy or better city driveability of Evo 75. Even automags who are usually against Fiat have accpeted the changes but I dont why fiat doesn't acknowledge and advertize.
For all other manufacturers each iteration sees improvements in areas where they lack. It may not be long before we have have 2020 i20 with best in class ride and handling + steering combo. I hope Fiat wakes up by that time. Esle we all will have antique TANKS(pun intended) standing in our garages.
Separate names with a comma.