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Abarth Punto/Avventura T-Jet -Launched

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by ramjn, Dec 11, 2014.

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  1. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,444
    delhi ncr
    @acechip @Raj_pol

    Where in this or any other post of mine did I claim the gearbox is slick or light or with pitch-perfect gear ratios etc?

    My point is: the gearbox is 'fine', as is, imo and in any case is NOT 'shitty' or horrid or intolerable or difficult. This is just nit-piking. Team-Bhp style, with the difference that you guys are in good, sincere faith, while over there most commentators aren't always.

    It has nothing to do with whether Fiat sells or does not sell better. Which is my only concern. I cannot believe you guys keep missing the obvious point: Fiat is a struggling-for-sales business in India.

    Manufacturing a new gearbox (which of course will come on the all-new cars) COSTS money, money, money, honey, a strange thing for Fiat to do/invest in when it WILL have not the slightest effect on sales. Just to please nit-pikers? I think not.

    Besides, I can say in very good faith, fan or no fan, the clutch is malai-makhan on my new Linea (as it is equally so on the Evo/Avventura diesels), smoother than on the older Lineas (which my Dad still has) something that I am skeptically surprised though delighted to hear is matched by the Duster, a great pioneering car now heading fast into the sales dungheap, just like the Fiats. I know for a fact that the clutch is not, by, let's see: VW, Suzuki and Hyundai and not Honda or Toyota either (talking diesels).

    But no doubt these perceptions are biased since I am a fanboy. No doubt the gear+clutch is this awful deal-breaker, and a terrible ruination of the ownership experience. For some/most?

    BUT: the clutch travel IS long. So? The gear shift is a un-slick, not difficult, not clunky, not vague, not easy-to-get-wrong, not slow, just un-slick? So?

    The ONLY so? that matters is whether the changes made to the product/engine/etc specs have a chance in hell of making a dent in PROFITABLE rather than severely discounted sales, immediately, or gradually through an improved word-of-mouth/brand image.

    This gearbox and steering-position-is-uncomfortable kind of critique is worth little or nothing, since it's very doubtful changing them (at great expense) will yield either better sales or better brand image, in a market that clearly does not care for such stuff much (WAY down the priority list, just like build, safety, tyres, braking-steering-handling-suspensions).

    It might please the Autocar aunty-hack...but she'll just find some other way to depreciate/denigrate the brand and the car.

    The thing just is, let's call it 'the tragic condition of Fiats in India':

    Fiats are expected to have the looks of a Maserati (which they do!), the handling of a BMW (which they do!), the ride and nvh of a mercedes (which they do!), the build of a volvo (which they do!), the efficiency of a Prius (which they sort of do!), the brand charisma of a Ferrari (which they don't other than on TFi, for some members;)), the gizmo- and feature-ladenness of a Hyundai (which they do!), and the ASS of Toyota (which they don't but are there say 70%).........all for cost of purchase and ownership of a Tata small car.

    AND: they still will not buy a Fiat!

    Slickness of gearshift + clutch and other such grave, killing lacunae you see....:p;)

    The ONLY meaningful, non-trivial-nit-piking, lacuna in the 2014/15 Indian Fiats is that....their sales figures are poor, which is the real reason for so much of the nit-piking. Everyone above all likes and buys a 'winner', joh jeeta in the baazar voh sikandar=maruti/honda/hyundai....etc

    Even the sheer thrilling power and pickup effect on hatches, matched to all that great handling/roadholding/braking etc is coming...via the t-jets on the FiatAbarths. It still has not on the 10 lakh rupee VW "gt" cars. They even fixed the misaligned glovebox on the Linea, would you believe? etc

    They won't sell much, because Fiats.......just don't sell much, not because they, like all vehicles at these price points, have this or that, these or those missing feature(s) or attribute(s).

    Me, for example, I'd have loved to buy my Linea t-jet in the famous "Palio yellow",or "Rosso Red", what a grievous oversight by fiat not not give me that option! That must be why sales are poor.:p

    That they don't sell is no doubt entirely their own fault (in the now distant past) but...is it too late?

    New "slick" 6-speed gearboxes and the 1.6 mjd etc are just red herrings? I sincerely hope Fiat ignores all such demands till their all-new cars are ready-for launch in end 2016-2017: they'll only lose money.

    Anyone, wanting a fast fast tight handling big-wheeled, wide-tyred hot hatch, who decides against buying the Fiat Punto Evo Abarth for much less than 10 lakhs (?) because the gearbox has a mere 5-speeds or because it has some 'mechanical feel' rather than digital-age 'slickness'.....would be lying about his/her real reasons for not buying a FiatAbarth!:p

    I expect to hear a few such pretend-earnest testimonials of "why I didn't buy the Fiat Evo Abarth t-jet, despite loving it greatly, bought an i20 elite instead" on that forum. I look forward to it, in fact, just to see how true my/our pessimism on Fiat's behalf is: 90% or 98% true?:p
  2. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    @prabhjot, dont worry about the Autocar aunty-hack, she is busy drooling over the warmed-over Honda Jazz, now that there is finally a car she can get a driver position and rear seat squab good enough for a 5'.2" frame:).
    Its not a question of whether any changes will help Fiat's cause or not. It is that these are requirements people typically perceive as important. Fiat has a lot of problems to solve before it can even think of establishing itself as a significant player.
    They have given up though, as is evident from their stance of being a "niche" car manufacturer and "mass OEM supplier". Thats pretty much it.
  3. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    Messages:
    374
    Pune
    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    to conclude the gearbox debate i would say it has similar feel of Hyundai Verna's steering (absolutely dead and no response) but it does its Job of turning the car and this gearbox is similarly does put the car in 1 to 5 and in Reverse gear (though sometimes I have to slot it 2-3 times to properly engage Reverse in my Linea.
    Sujit508 likes this.
  4. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    1,900
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    @prabhjot, for the sake of argument, you are comparing what VW gives in Europe and here. Shouldn't the yardstick be the same for Fiat too? MJD2, Multi-air, DDCT, better gearboxes (even the AMT is not available which is available in other cars here) are all there, but is Fiat bringing it here? The answer is a NO. Shouldn't Fiat also be called as Feku. You may divert the discussion towards pricing, but there too Fiat has themselves to blame for the situation they are in, if they had done what was right, even they would have been in a position to price their cars more. You need not defend Fiat all the time. If they deserve a spade, they will get it no matter how much you defend.

    Coming to the gearbox used in the Fiats, is it robust and reliable? Yes, but is it sporty slick to use - definitely no. A short throw gearbox will only increase to the joy of driving.

    It has been amply made evident to you by myself and a few other members here, that belittling or name calling other manufacturers or cars is leaving a poor taste and taking the fanboism to the extreme.

    PS: a healthy debate is welcome, but writing lengthy posts only to call names is of zero value to the readers. Blind praising or blind bashing are two extremes which we do not want on the forum.

    Note: Please stick to the topic and assist in keeping the thread free from unwanted discussions.
    bharath, abhinav_nani and prabhjot like this.
  5. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    204
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @prabhjot

    Your concerns are partially valid except the fact that they are not presented correctly giving a feeling of fanboism to others.Regarding the gearbox feel yes it gets difficult to engage sometimes but not impossible. Think it from a newbie angle that it is your first car and you know hardly to drive and you get this gearbox to drive.
    You have to accept the fact that FIAT is still lagging in terms of new launches as compared to others. Though I know the fact that new launches by other brands are just eyewash and not upto the mark but if you still see most of us buy car as a family car rather than a sports car. Though Fiat can produce car in both the segment but it is still unclear in which segment they want to stay.Their policy is still unclear
    As said by Nkrishnap that Fiat has the capacity and capability but they are not utilizing it because of the sale figure.

    I don't know your age but when you enter old age slick gear box clutch and soft suspension are deciding factor for any car buyer better ask your dad may be he might be 60 plus. Let him drive Jazz and Linea back to back and get his comment on the forum honestly.

    All four fingers are not equal so see the positives of all and try to admire them.

    @acechip
    I think you drive your duster on open road bring it to delhi on some day and drive around on busy city working day with duster clutch and gearbox setup. I think you will change your mind regarding the clutch setup.Let your duster cross 80K or say 90K km mark and then check your emission norm difference.

    Regarding the Gearbox setup yes Fiat won't change it unless they change the car model altogether because keeping 2 different stock inventory for a same model is simply unviable and Fiat is very well known for its high degree of Standardization across the world.
    bharath, abhinav_nani and prabhjot like this.
  6. Saket Sidana

    Saket Sidana Regolare

    Messages:
    491
    Delhi NCR
    Linea T-Jet
    Trying my attempt to get it back on topic. ;)
    Any idea what an Evo TJet would be priced at?
    bharath and VIJENDRA SINGH like this.
  7. dadasaheb

    dadasaheb Regolare

    Messages:
    374
    Pune
    MH 12 (Ranjangaon)
    Linea 1.3
    Pricing will be similar to Linea T-Jet if the T-Jet is 1.4 L
    less than that if the T -Jet is going to be 1.2 L
    prabhjot likes this.
  8. Whencut86

    Whencut86 Amatore

    Messages:
    87
    Chennai
    Fiat Enthusiast
    Have a feeling the Punto Evo Abarth will be priced between 8-9 lakhs on-road. The Avventura Abarth will be price 9.5-10 lakhs on-road.
  9. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    495
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @Saket Sidana Here is my take. If the engine is entirely made in India then they would save money compared to the current version on sale (since it is imported or at least part of it is).

    What they should do is plonk one of the better gearboxes, add some of the bling things and sell it close to the GT version of the Polo. So you have a car which has 135 BHP of power compared to the 105 BHP that the TSI produces, all discs and say side curtain air bags (I am stretching to the limit :p). So should be say 9.5 to 10L on road

    Now post an ad and do a genuine comparo with the competition. Will get them some footfalls (maybe 50-60 buyers additional a month). The brand grows.

    Now, they can also release an another extreme stripped down version for as low a price as they can. No bling, music system etc...(however airbags - 2 must be there). That can add another maybe 50 guys (poor dudes like me who love stuff and lack money). Maybe 8.5 L or lesser on road.

    And market, market, market like there is no tomorrow. Even my dad should know and ask me about that T-jet stuff which the garage mechanics in Assam are talking about. Will take some time but Fiat needs to start somewhere.
    dadasaheb likes this.
  10. Amit Rox

    Amit Rox Amatore

    Messages:
    88
    jammu
    jammu
    Punto Evo 1.3 90 HP
    I want multiple airbags(7) and other security features. Am in, done deal.
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