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Abarth Punto/Avventura T-Jet -Launched

Discussion in 'Fiat India News' started by ramjn, Dec 11, 2014.

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  1. pabhishek

    pabhishek Esperto

    Messages:
    1,379
    Oslo
    Pune
    Linea T-Jet
    So, manual stick it is for Tjet Evo. But rims are, it seems 17inchers and skirts look good too. :)

    Lets hope Fiat price it correct.
    prabhjot likes this.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,445
    delhi ncr
    You guys are being hasty. Perhaps because you have not driven European Polos (neither have I) and the Euro Golf (I have)? The Indian Polo GT (which i have, in TSi form) is way down the pole to the euro Polo, believe me, in: build, brakes, ride if not also handling, and esp steering.

    The term GT=Grand Turismo=Grand Touring. It is NOT about speed alone. That's what makes a "GT" car different to a "sports car". A GT car HAS to have proper build+ride+handling+steering feel+brakes+refinement....and of course style! That's the definition of GT, not sheer speed or acceleration.

    The Punto Evo+Avventura 90 hp mjd have these in many many spades above the Polo GT, i don't care how fast it is, which is not as much as is commonly believed. Out on the highway, and in-gear (up to say 120 kph) the Fiats are much closer to being GT-like-in-philosophy (the exemplars of which have been for decades Maserati, never Ferrari) than the Indian Polo, which also has dull dull styling: too plain, too simple, too linear, too flat, inside and out. Works only in red, which is probably why most Indian Polo buyers choose red. A Swift is NOT dull, any VW in India (even the Jetta and Passat) is, style-wise.

    Other than the dsg gearbox, I cannot see a single reason why an Indian Polo GT is regarded as a proper European sporty hatch, let alone deserving the label 'GT'. Ford Fiesta sedan in India, 90 hp diesel?: yes. VW jetta in India: Sure. VW Vento/Skoda Rapid or Polo GT: no way!

    VW in India, unlike Fiat or Ford, peddles 'third world' fakes: fake European VW-s, fake Euro VW-s dressed up as Skoda-s, and fake (advertised) 'German engineering' (other than the dsg gearbox). In India.

    They're a feku firm and brand in India, dishonest-to-themselves, as one can tell from their advertising, and the dealers.

    Fiat may be lazy, their dealers may be bumbling and so on: but they have that honesty in India. As they showed with the t-jet in (my) Linea (GT at 8 lakh rupees!), and soon on proper GT cars (adjeusted for Indian prices): the Fiat Abarth-s.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2015, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2015 ---
    However, I don't doubt that the Polo 'GT' (ahem) will sell far more than the FiatAbarth-s, which will be a no great sales achievement in this market, since it already sells in pretty small numbers (perhaps because of the TSi engine +dsg transmission are imported, and so the car's pretty overpriced, ostensible GT-ness notwithstanding?)

    The FiatAbarth t-jet-s will have undercut the 'GT' Polo petrol by a lot: i.e., offer more of everything in comparison but for far less. They still won't sell that much. As usual for Fiat in India.

    Anyway, why bother? The cars sound like they're really something else (all-round) if it's true that the tune is of 135 bhp+ what 240Nm more or less?!

    I might.....
  3. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    @prabhjot : Am afraid I have to interject on this one. Your post sounded like those topiwallas from Delhi peddling free power to the mango man :happy:. Fact is, that VW sells much more than Fiat, inspite of a later entry. I dont agree with that fake thing- globally speaking, VW enjoys a much better brand reckoning than Fiat. They have some things in their cars that Fiat doesnt. 6 years into its launch, Fiat hasnt hauled its lazy "culo" up to get the MJD 1.6 in the Linea, whose chassis so richly deserves it. Instead, they are about to gift whatever prospective sales they may have to MSIL, courtesy 1.6 MJD. Atleast VW have been competitive about providing the right set of engines for Vento/Polo GT in the form of 1.5/1.6 diesels, after goofing up on the Polo 3-pot diesel earlier. They have made the adjustments. They made dual airbags standard on all their cars after that NCAP episode. The point is, they care about their brand image. What did Fiat do? They havent even talked about the NCAP test.
    "Built like a tank" doesnt cut it anymore, not to 95 % of the buyers. And this sales pitch too came after so many years of sheer neglect. I am sure some sane people at Fiat India finally put their ears to the ground and learned from the praises heaped on the sheet metal by Fiat owners.
  4. Murphy_Fiat

    Murphy_Fiat Superiore

    Messages:
    648
    Trivandrum
    Trivandrum
    Linea T-Jet
    Abarth evo is getting new suspension setup and 17 inch alloys. No changes for Fiat Avventura 135 hp powered by abarth
    prabhjot and VIJENDRA SINGH like this.
  5. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,445
    delhi ncr
    @acechip

    We may be getting too far OT, though I think it is very relevant to compare Fiat (the cars, the brand, and the company) with VW (same things). MODS, please decide.

    VW is the biggest feku car company in India.

    First: 3-pot petrols AND diesels. No equipment. Exorbitant pricing. Advertised as 'Pemium German engineering'. Even though, as I can personally confirm from several personal experiences driving rental-car entry-level VW Golfs in the Uk, the following were all WAY diluted, as they continue to beon the 9-10 lakh rupere GT Polo-s: build, ride, steering, brakes, tyres, headlights, nvh+suspension noise.

    Second: a diluted India-special hatch with a boot, no other difference. Voila, a 'premium german engineered' sedan, Vento, one that is sold nowhere in Europe, North/West or South.

    Third: pretentious, dishonest and smug ad-s, and many dealers too, not to mention exorbitant spares, no adequately responsible and honest warranty policy.

    Didn't work: losses and disrepute followed.

    Then: 'GT'? You should know that VW does not offer any car like a GT anywhere in the world, to the best of the looking-up I've done. They offer the famous GTI sub-badge. But that is very high powered car. To call the VW Polo Tsi and TDi 'GT' is totally feku. Because it is NOT one, nor is it a GTi or an R, obviously. It's like Ford calling the 90 hp fiesta an ST, or Fiat calling the 90 hp Evo an Abarth in a market that knows no better (for the most part).

    The car that matches the engine+gearbox spec of the Indian PoloGT (which costs more than a Linea t-jet, i (cannot) believe) in the UK is marketed as part of the Blue line-up. i.e., eco-friendly and cheap running costs. GT? Fast sporty car? I think not. What it does have is kilo-s more of equipment including airbags etc.

    Especially since I can confirm, since I get occassionally ride in my Friend's Polo TSi, which I've driven a few times: it continues to have a too-light build, a choppy bouncy ride, the car's backside bottoms out on speed breakers even if it clears them without hurting its underbody if it has say 2 heavy adults in the rear, its tyres are barely the right diameter for a hot hatch (let alone a GT) and are too skinny, its brakes are mediocre, its steering worse than a Tata Zest/Bolt and a Swift, let alone a fiesta or Punto/Linea. It has SO much missing equipment. etc. There are areas where it is genuinely better esp uetterly perfect visible fit-finish.

    Anyway, the GTs with dsg-s don't sell much. The vast majority of sales of the Polo are the 3-cylinder petrol and the 90 hp TDi 1.5l. VW loses money in India etc etc

    And it costs what 10+/- lakhs on-road? what the hell for?

    What is it, then? An attempt to make up for the embarassment in the market when sales plummetted since everyone discovered, including NDTV and NCAP, they were faking it: the Vento+Polo weren't any good, neither were their dealers or ASS.

    They've used this dsg and loads and loads of advertising and 0% interest schemes to keep their brand from being near-permanently damaged......like Fiat's was by the Uno+Palio early ASS+spares fiasco-s.

    Good for them.

    They'll make some profits in the Indian market with their fake GT-s maybe 6-8 years from now. I can personally confirm that both the VW and the Skoda dealers have as they say 'sudhro'-ed to a good extent, for eg, so they're trying to be honest, and overcome their 'badnaami', btw a badnaami they face in many markets esp the US, which is why their profit margin is.....a mere 2% globally (VW brand), less than most including FCA-minus-Ferrari.

    Maybe.

    btw, their sales of the Polo and the Vento are, GT hot hatches or not, dsg or not, advertizing and 0% finance or not, STILL down hugely from 2-3 years ago, even after facelifts.

    Fiat may be slow and inept at brand-promotion and revival but it is not so dishonest as to offer diluted by 30-40% Polo-s, by for example using the Abarth badge for what is an econo engine in Europe, like VW have done by pretending the India-only GT badge amounts to a great sporty offering from them worth 10 lakhs or more.

    Let VW offer terrific brakes, smooth clutches, excellent nvh, a half-decent steering system, adequate tyres (size, width and model), 'German' build quality and good equipment levels, etc, on the Polo+Vento+Skoda Rapid, then they might be overcome the widespread perception that they and Skoda and many of their dealers too are a dishonest, arrogant, smug, pretentious, too-expensive, un-reliable/trustworthy as companies etc.

    I know many folks who think this way about them, from experience of owning their Indian cars, not hearsay.

    I think it's great that the Indian Abarth-s (it seems from what we've heard) will be worthy of the name in style+engineering substance, adjusting for Indian market pricing. ergo, Fiat is honest and authentic, in this specific sense, if not in several others too? By VW's standards.

    Of course, they won't reedeem Fiat in India, just as VW have not been at all redeemed by their feku GT's.
    mchanna, Amit Rox and Ichimaru like this.
  6. acechip

    acechip Superiore

    I agree we are getting OTT. But what VW purportedly lacks in equipment, Fiat also does, and doesnt care about it. I have reports from my friends and colleagues that VWs are not very expensive to maintain. So there does seem to be some amount of customer satisfaction in VWs in terms of overall ownership, especially the newer ones.

    I am not too bothered about GT and other such monikers. "Grande" Punto ? It is smaller in internal usable cabin dimensions than I-20 or Honda Jazz. And what exactly is the "Evolution" in the Punto EVO ? If you take the Mitsubishi interpretation of EVO, we know that it is deadly "bat outa hell" machine. Punto Evo, in relative terms (unless and until launched in Abarthified form) is a pip squeak.

    Automobile business in India, as elsewhere is "take no prisoners" type. Whatever tactic has to be adopted, must be adopted. Too bad for Fiat fans that Fiat is choosing to look the other way.
    prabhjot, Vaibhav Rawat and nkrishnap like this.
  7. nkrishnap

    nkrishnap Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    1,900
    Bangalore
    Bangalore
    Linea 1.3
    Atleast the so called FEKU company gave more powerful engines and the DSG gearbox and priced it higher too. What stopped Fiat from doing it.

    @prabhjot: Please stop demeaning every manufacturer apart from Fiat. Being a fanboy is good, but simply writing off everything else is foolish.
  8. limraj

    limraj Superiore

    Messages:
    914
    Trivandrum
    Linea 1.3
    OT1: Specs of Polo GT from UK and India for comparison.

    Polo GT UK (From autocar uk)
    Volkswagen Polo Blue GT

    Price £19,865; Engine 4 cyls, 1395cc, turbo, petrol; Power 148bhp at 5000-6000rpm; Torque 184lb ft at 1500-3000rpm; Gearbox 7-spd dual-clutch automatic; Kerb weight 1224kg; Top speed 137mph; 0-62mph 7.8sec; Economy 60.1mpg (combined); CO2/tax band 108g/km, 15 per cent

    Polo GT India (from NDTV Auto)
    Polo GT TSI Petrol 1.2

    Displacement : 1197cc
    Max Power: 104bhp@5000rpm
    Max Torque: 175Nm@1500-4100rpm
    Transmission: 7-speed DSG Automatic
    Fuel Economy: 17.21Km/l

    OT2:
    One of my friends bought a Polo petrol highline (not GT TSI) in Blr, a week back. OTR 8L. I asked him why he did not consider GT TSI. He said 3L OTR additional is not justified. Rightly so.
    However, he did consider Punto as an option. But, decided against it for hearsay (service and spares problems) and the image that Polo offers the best safety.
    prabhjot likes this.
  9. KKAUL

    KKAUL Amatore

    Messages:
    204
    delhi
    Grande Punto 1.3
    @aceship: You have never maintained a Skoda or a VW that is the reason you are telling that it is easy to maintain. Just ask your friend who owns polo to enquire the cost of service at 90K kms I thing he will get the shock of his life. Ask any Skoda Octavia owner the cost of service at 70K kms you will get the shock of your life.Check out the price of VW jetta in USA and specs you will be surprised.VW is european brand like we have Maruti in India. I am not saying Fiat is the best and do no patronise any brand but yes definately VW is overpriced for what they offer as compared to others. Don't think that others are not even fiat is also overpriced in 1.3 MJD avatar and biggest of them is Suzuki.

    To put things in perspective believe me VW in India is the only company which follows some crucial norms during manufacturing others you can't even think of what they do.But this does not justify their high cost.

    @prabjhot It would not be good to call any company with bad names on a public forum as it may mean disrespect to them. manufacturing any machine is very difficult task and to disrespect a manufacturer is utterly disrespectful. Even if you do not like a product don't buy it but respect the effort.

    I will tell you a short story to summarize:
    A very good painter displayed his painting on a art gallery for 10 days and wrote underneath it " WHOSOVER THINKS THERE IS ANY ERROR IN THE PAINTING PLEASE MARK IT USING A RED PEN KEPT UNDERNEATH." After 10 days when he came the painting had redmarks all over it and original painting was not visible.Demoralized he went to his friend and asked whether he was so much of a bad painter. His friend replied you make another painting and this time i will put it in a bigger art Gallery.
    He made another painting and displayed this time his friend wrote" WHOSOEVER THINKS THERE IS A FAULT PLEASE CORRECT IT USING A BRUSH AND PAINT KEPT UNDERNEATH" . The painting was kept at gallery for 30 days and no body even dared.

    I think you got the crux

    Regards
    KK
  10. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    495
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot I will not go OT. We will take it off line. Suffice it to say that a company that does not give airbags, has a shitty gearbox and sells an ancient 67 BHP engine is even more feku by that standard.

    Well back to the T-jet any idea on whether the gearbox will be sorted out?
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