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A bitter experience

Discussion in 'Punto 1.3 MJD' started by Rituraj, Sep 1, 2014.

  1. gopscreative

    gopscreative Amatore

    Messages:
    215
    Chicago
    Well I am posting after a looong break .. I have been missing my Punto here in Americas, Fiat does have a minuscule presence here. Coming to the main topic, I feel sorry for Rituraj and others in NE region. Shame on Fiat which is not able to even establish a proper service center for already existing cars. With their reputation for Service hitting the lowest points Fiat should be very careful of not even allowing a single sore point to its already badly damaged reputation. Instead they are ignoring emails from people who bought their cars against all odds.
    In fact I feel , Fiat should make special arrangements for looking after these customers. By doing so, it will take their customer service to a next level.I don't use my punto now a days, but my friend who had an accident with it suffered to peaks to get it repaired that too in Bangalore. It took almost 3 months time and tons of escalations. How will a customer ever buy their products if he has to suffer for getting even smallest things rectified.
    Many of my Indian friends ask for my advice while buying a new car and I never recommend them Fiat products after myself being one..
    @Rituraj, Make sure Fiat gets its pie of suffering you have gone through.. which will definitely reflect in their future sales which has already hit abysmal levels.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
    punto11 likes this.
  2. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,455
    delhi ncr
    Wrong advice to Rituraj, buddy, self-defeating and self-refuting for him, if he wants the new dealer/FASS in Assam to survive and do a good job on his and others' Fiats.

    I have had two Fiats over five years, and the immediate family has had two others. We have never come even close to the kind of gratuitous anger you're expressing. In fact have been happy to see the notable improvements in both Delhi and Gurgaon-Faridabad FASS. More than satisfied. Could and should they be better? Sure, definitely.

    You guys are just engaging in false because over-the-top generalizations based on your or rather your friend's very particular experiences, and in the case of the Assam guys, difficult circumstances. I know a bunch of Fiat owners in three different cities personally, no one's disgruntled with Fiat.

    I have no hesitation in recommending Fiats, have suggested them to MANY over time, not one of whom has regretted it.

    My sample size of friends and family who've bought the Punto and Linea is pretty big, and so my statistical conclusion is: not bad, Fiat!

    And fiat sales are actually rising smartly year-on-year: you've maybe been away too long?! ;-)

    btw, i hear sales of the Fiat and Abarth 500 are excellent in the US. And sales of Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge, Ram and Maserati are soaring too. So Fiat must not so bad/incompetent/dishonest/lazy/indifferent/arrogant or some other stereotype, after all?! ;-)
    mchanna likes this.
  3. Raj_pol

    Raj_pol Regolare

    Messages:
    497
    Bangalore
    Punto Evo 1.3
    @prabhjot I am a newbie to this forum and my apologies if I say anything wrong but I think the experience of one person cannot be a parameter by which you recommend a car to another person. See you always keep talking about how the Delhi dealer is good and so on. Please try to understand the other folks complaining also have Fiat's (which means they did like the brand) and then had to suffer.

    I am not a fan-boy for any company, brand or so on. Reason - they are out there to make money, not a cent of which they are going to give us. All that they will give is the product or the service and that must be up to expectations.In case of Fiat, it is not.

    In another thread, I myself have written about the difference in attitude between different car makers, while trying to sell their cars.
    Anup, prabhjot and Rituraj like this.
  4. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,455
    delhi ncr
    Raj_Pol and rituraj

    I completely agree. Further improvements are essential, they, even the few 'excellent' dealers are not where they have to be.

    My interventions are only about correcting the 'adverse selection' (as the economists call it) of opinions, and opinions-made-public.

    Let me explain. I feel from many years of owning Fiats, and family+friends owning them along with other brands too that in Fiat's case, negative experiences are

    (a) exagerrated, routinely, because owners and buyers are more knowledgable, vocal, and ALREADY have internalized the old (from the Uno and original Palio days) skepticism about Fiat, and so are ALL TOO vigilant.

    The existence of this forum is a testament to how much greater the scrutiny of Fiat is compared to any other brand, NONE of whom have owner/enthusiast fora. Conversely, the deficits of the ASS labour, prices of spares etc of the dominant firms are hardly ever highlighted.

    And so you have herding away from brands like Fiat, and in favour of say Hyundai or Honda. The point is not that their ASS is not better. The point is that it is postulated as extremely great, and Fiat's or VW's as extremely poor because of the amplification caused by the herding of opinions. The more owners bitch to the tune of say 5, with herding (hearsay, word-of-mouth, rumour) it gets amplified to the tune of say 25! What is sad is that for some Fiat owners it then feeds back and the same five gets amplified to the tuned 50.

    This not peculiar to Fiat or to cars. Economists of information and branding etc have shown these gross imperfections of information to be rife in all markets, though obviously more so for cars.

    (b) those with positive or even excellent experiences typically keep quiet. That is just a common cognitive bias humans have: losses and difficulties are felt more strongly than gains or satisfactions. And so there is a statistical quirk in the sample size of opinions about Fiat a prospective buyer/owner hears: he never hears a representative sample! He out-of-all-proportion hears negative views mostly or even only. This is called 'adverse selection' in economics.

    Rituraj and the Assam guys have it bad but only IN ASSAM, and only for PECULIAR reasons (new Dealer shutting down, no more Tata). By posting all over against Fiat he, very rightly from his perspective and position, is deliberately intensifying the information biases and distortions about Fiat elsewhere in the country.

    My example of the big improvements in Gurgaon was meant only to point out that the Assam guys' experiences are NOT statistically typical. Their disillusionment with Fiat in Assam has no bearing on Gurgaon or Bangalore, at least not automatically.

    None of the above means that Fiat ASS and dealers do not need improvement or deserve criticism, just that let us not say '3/10' when the statistical truth is '6or7/10'.

    Raj, as a new owner of a brilliant new Evo, I'd hope that you not go looking for defects and failures in ASS, because if you look hard enough and your scrutiny is harsh enough you WILL find them! Be objective, not paranoid. We've owned many Fiats, know many who do, in different cities, been to several ASS centres: things just are NOT as poor/deficient as is routinely made out.

    The 'Fiat ASS is bad' thing is a stereotype i.e., a false generalization: it is or has been rooted in some truth, but has now become a reductive, grossly exagerrated rumour!
    Raj_pol likes this.
  5. Rituraj

    Rituraj Regolare

    Messages:
    381
    Jorhat, Assam
    @prabhjot: You are very good with your words.:)

    Coming back to your post- when you pay your hard earned money for a new vehicle, you don’t just buy the car itself, you also enter into an unwritten contract with the manufacturer who commits to provide support during the ownership period. Now, what happens when the manufacturer refuses to honour his part of the contract? It is the customer who suffers. Now, you can either look at such cases as isolated ones or you can draw your own conclusions over how much that manufacturer is committed towards supporting its own products and towards customers who have reposed faith on it. Now, let’s extrapolate my case and the cases of few others to other owners here in Assam who have suffered in a similar manner, but somehow haven’t been as vocal as some of us on online forums. What you would now get is a sample size, perhaps much larger than the sample size of your friends and family members who have owned Fiat products and have been happy with them.

    Now, if you argue that the Assam guys have been on the wrong end of circumstances, I would only ask you to take some time out and go through the feedback posted by owners from different locations on Fiat India’s FB page. You might find that the picture isn’t all that rosy after all. I haven’t visited the FB pages of other manufacturers, maybe they receive similar feedback as well. However, they have the sales figures to show, atleast most of them do. You never know, perhaps the sales figures indeed point towards something!
  6. gopscreative

    gopscreative Amatore

    Messages:
    215
    Chicago
    @prabhjot, You are lucky enough to not have experienced bitter experience.I pray god it stays the same. But we need to think about people who have gone through pain of maintaining a Fiat.Again , one can only feel the pain when he goes through it.

    Coming to Sales, Fiat USA gives a different treatment to its US customers(and most of the Fiat sales have been on lease). Still they are merely managing around 16k a year where as Japanese counterparts outsell them easily.But the question of sales is in India.Are you serious that Fiat India sales is improving?? There is a big sales thread in TeamFiat itself which speaks volumes about Sales.
    Yes we all love Fiat and gave us our hard earned money by putting heart and soul in to this brand even when people around us laugh because we chose Fiat. Don't you think Fiat should understand that its hardcore enthusiasts who buy Fiat and they deserve a different treatment when compared to what is provided by so called "Herd" manufacturers??

    Last part regarding recommendations, I have had my bitter part. Friends of mine who have purely bought a Fiat because of my advice, have experienced horrors. Forget about Assam, its in Bangalore which is one of the best places to own a Fiat!! Who will answer for the lost trust when they question me "what kind of brand you recommended me?"!!. And remember most of the customers are either less cognizant about technicality or simply don't have enough time to go forums and rectify their problems. They just want ASS to care of their cars and have a peaceful life.When you are sick you go to Doctor and not research on your own or left on your own for getting treated!!

    And I agree with Rituraj, You are very good with your words buddy. :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 12, 2014 ---
    Just posting an article about Fiat sales in USA..

    http://247wallst.com/autos/2014/07/14/fiat-has-more-trouble-selling-cars/
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
    zenwalker and Rituraj like this.
  7. prabhjot

    prabhjot Esperto

    Messages:
    2,455
    delhi ncr
    You guys and me are arguing the same thing, only you're doing it from the PARTICULAR perspective of people who've had to experience "horrors" and I am arguing the case at an overall statistical level. Don't think i have not had issues with FASS over the years or my dad or friends have not wth Fiat or other brands.

    I am neither so lucky nor so foolish as to generalize and say that Fiat ASS is fine as it is today.

    BUT: there is an 'adverse selection' of opinions about Fiats and FASS (not counting Assam where the ISSUE is a terrible one, for now): non-Fiat owners/enthusiats just DO NOT get anything like a REPRESENTATIVE sample of Fiat owner testimonies. And so the real 'issues' of incompetence etc get amplified through bad-word-of-mouth, often from non-owner to non-owner out of all proportion to the statistical truth. This is what economists call 'herd effects' on the information available in the market.

    (Notice how gopscreative's been silent for years on his Punto but has offered his testimony ONLY WHEN the ASS experience went badly: adverse selection of information made public to prospective buyers. He is not wrong to highlight the deficits, but that is the point: mostly it is the dissatisfied who speak loudly, while the relatively satisfied ones keep much quieter.)

    e.g., I know two people personally and have read on another major forum several testimonies of NEW Honda Cities with significant manufacturing, build quality and component defects. Most of these owners are thoroughly unhappy with the dealers, the ASS centre and Honda itself.

    Now, imagine that these Honda-s were Fiats, with the same defects, dealers, and ASS quality.

    The internet and automotive experts and journalists would've been flooded with Fiat bashing, one person repeating to another. In fact the owners of these Fiats would post much more honest and detailed reports right here on teamfiat (Honda has no equivalent forum). There has been no such flood against Honda.

    That is 'adverse selection' of information based on which a prospective customer is lead away from independent rational purchase decisions. That is the 'herd effect' in the Indian baazar for cars. i.e., stereotypes of Honda being a firm with a genius for reliability and quality (belied by the new City or Amaze or Mobilio) and ASS standards, while fiat or Skoda or VW have to face the opposite stereotyping.

    And yet the statistical fact I believe is somewhere in between: Honda's not nearly as good as its legend, just like Fiat ASS is not nearly as bad as the stereotype.

    That's all I am saying, am not trying to be unsympathetic to your ASS woes with Fiat. Rituraj, hope the new Guwahati dealer will be able to redeem the situation of your and others' Fiats in Assam, and of Fiat itself as a brand in Assam.
    mchanna likes this.
  8. sandipan_r15

    sandipan_r15 Superiore

    Messages:
    749
    HALDIA
    WEST BENGAL
    Grande Punto 1.3
    Rituraj,my sympathy to you.
    There is a FASS at DIMAPUR----SARAMATI MOTORS.It is 150 km from JORHAT as per GOOGLE MAP.

    This facility is on & running----pl read this post by a fellow TFIan.

    "Went to my bro'in'law "the dealer of fiat in dimapur" with my Punto today... for some hefty repairs "My mistake"
    We ended up with him lending me his linea so that I can drive back to Kohima.
    I ended up desiring the avventura.....:hungry::hungry:"

    -----this has been posted by fellow member 'metz4u'(from KOHIMA) today at 8:57am in the 'AVVENTURA' thread.

    Can't you avail this facility?

    (you may contact metz4u for help--the owner of the FASS & DEALER is his bro'in'law)
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2014
    asimpleson, prabhjot and BoseSuman like this.
  9. Rituraj

    Rituraj Regolare

    Messages:
    381
    Jorhat, Assam
    No sympathies please, it's just a car ;)

    I am aware of the FASS at Dimapur. However, travelling to Dimapur is just not an option. There has been a lot of violence in the Assam-Nagaland border recently, making a road trip to Dimapur a very risky proposition.
    prabhjot likes this.
  10. sandipan_r15

    sandipan_r15 Superiore

    Messages:
    749
    HALDIA
    WEST BENGAL
    Grande Punto 1.3
    That's why(law & order case) I suggested you to contact metz4u. Please contact him, he may find a way out(like receiving/dropping the car at ASSAM border)---pl contact him before scrapping the idea.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2014

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