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76 hp or 90 hp punto mjd???

Discussion in 'Car Purchase Queries' started by sundar1900, Mar 13, 2012.

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  1. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Thomman, If the budget was not a constraint, sure it's a miss. People generally opt for 75 HP when don't want to spend extra Rs. 40000. Anyways, when i drove a 75 hp, i noticed that there is crystal clear difference over 100 kmph. It feels lazy compared to 90 HP. Variable geometry shows it's true colours & maintain that top end grunt beautifully. Reason is simple, though the peak torque may be almost similar, VGT always hovers around the peak torque for most of it's RPM range where 75 HP is more like a SINE wave. It declines steeply@higher RPMs. That is why 6 sec & 8 secs difference is observed for 80-120 kmph & 100-140 kmph.
    Lower than 100km/hr, with the right gearing one would struggle to decide if it's 90 HP/ 75 HP. For that awesome top range, Rs 40000 seems like a bargain to me, quite frankly.
  2. sathya_sc

    sathya_sc

    Messages:
    347
    Chennai
    Go for the 90HP. There is no such thing like - "This much power is enough". Those 15 horses will paste smiles on your face everytime you take it to the highway. Always, more power is a sure welcome. And being a FIAT, the chassis will beg for more power, even 90 seems less for the Punto. So don't think about 75 if you have that extra money. Go for the 90.

    And by the way Enki, what is the speed you think Punto will do in the range I have classified below.. I am planning to change my Ritz to another car and was looking at options.. just that it will help me a bit..

    Max Comfortable cruising speed -
    Easy to achieve (speed until which the progress is fast - needle just keeps moving upwards without any delay) -
    Speed after which the progress upwards is slow (needle thinks before moving upwards, you need a really long stretch) -
    Max speed achieved -

    I will give these figures for the T-Jet so that you can understand..

    Max Comfortable cruising speed - 130km/hr (relaxed cruising)
    Easy to achieve (speed until which the progress is fast - needle just keeps moving upwards without any delay) - 180km/hr
    Speed after which the progress upwards is slow (needle thinks before moving upwards, you need a really long stretch) - 180km/hr to 200km/hr
    Max speed achieved - 207km/hr
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
  3. ramjn

    ramjn Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    5,244
    Chennai
    Linea 1.3
    I totally agree here. Though 75hp is capable of doing speeds in the range of 150-160, but it takes time. I drove 75hp punto last week all the way from Bangalore to Chennai. And my first impression is that its not quick after 100 KMPH like we see in 90. There is clear difference between both the vehicles after 100 KMPH. GP 90 is a different beast after 2500 RPM.
  4. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Satya, All required stats are below but a little bit in details since you are considering one.

    Progress is slow after 175-180 kmph. Till 175, needle moves like the second's needle of a clock. It's uniform in increments. Now this has been confirmed at least 15 times as i have a stretch here which is 2 KMs empty & flyover is under construction. I have managed to climb to 180 km/hr on this 2 kms stretch with just excusing myself with only the distance left to brake for a U-turn. So it's very quick to touch that magic mark of 180km/hr. I am sure it will exceed your expectations in this dept that you may hold for 90HP right now.

    Anything over 180 km/hr is hard-work & progress comes with some patience. I have achieved 185km/hr myself & just pulled over my leg from accelerator as soon as i noticed that i have been cruising that fast. It was during a brief encounter with a BMW320D on NH-1. I am destined to touch 190km/hr someday. You know 1 km whooshes like 1 meter@185 km/hr:cry:. Somehow not managed to find another 1-2 km empty stretch during my last 14000 Kms.

    Relaxed cruising :130 km/hr with engine sounding best & easiest.

    If you are@80km/hr, easy to achieve speed whenever you don't see any traffic in next 600 mtrs: 170-175 km/hr without any waiting/acceleration hindrance

    Max. speed achieved: 185 km/hr

    If you planning for a 90HP for your RITZ replacement, i completely support & back up your decision. It's a tough call with Tjet but its another awesome fantastic & entertaining machine. I promise it will manage to secure a place in your heart along-with your Tjet;). You may excuse your Tjet at times because of the fuel costs but still enjoying the performance for peanuts. Man, What a car!

    Satya, One most important thing left to be mentioned. You didn't care on that aspect too. Since your Tjet has 4 discs, Punto has only 2 ventilated disc brakes. I haven't tried hard braking above 175, but i have experienced intentionally emergency brakes@175 km/hr (though there was no emergency at all). The needle dropped to 70 km/hr with in 2 secs with trajectory of the car intact straight. No rear swaying or skidding. Though the road was good, still that was unbelievable. I think you can save a doggy which is just 100 ft away if you are@175km/hr & discs are cooled down with no hard braking during previous 10-15 mins. That would fade the brakes obviously. That another +ve aspect that didn't come to your mind, so felt like intimating. This car is like on your finger tips till 175. It's you for every single inch that decide & never the car.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  5. sathya_sc

    sathya_sc

    Messages:
    347
    Chennai
    That was indeed a detailed explanation..thanks Enki.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
  6. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    Probably a touch overoptimistic. The 5th gear is not that tall to facilitate 130kmph relaxed cruising. 110 or so is the real relaxed speed for the 90hp Multijet. The gear ratios are just not there to facilitate a relaxed 130kmph cruise. Had there been a 6 speed 'box with an overdrive in the 6th, then yes. But the moncoque and suspension setup of the Punto/Linea can handle anything you throw at it. ;)

    Cheers.

    Ah, Here comes ENKI with an AK47 in hand to prove me otherwise. :D
  7. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    No Gurjinder, no AK 47. Relaxed cruising is something that's more of a range that a particular speed. I think +/- 10KM/Hr@120 KM/Hr, what ever you want to settle with. That where i feel engine feels best to hear while cruising. Any increment from here on, engine will start screaming louder & louder.

    But gear ratio's is an interesting inclusion here. Can you elaborate your view on this?
    I thought FIAT's gear ratio's are for linear torque across the range than to support particular RPM range. How Verna/Vento gear ranges supports relaxed cruising that FIAT doesn't? I am not clear on this, if this is the case.
  8. gurjinder

    gurjinder Staff Member Janitor

    Messages:
    3,989
    Punjab
    As a general rule -:
    Tall gear ratios - promote higher top speeds in that gear
    Shorter gear ratios - promote lower speeds in gear, allow a faster rate of acceleration at the cost of top speed in that particular gear.

    The 5th gear of the Linea D / Punto D is rather perfect for our slow Indian highways. To enable a 100kmph cruise. The 5th is so geared so as to minimise downshifting to 4th when the speeds climb down. That is one of the greatest strengths of the VGT Multijet in partnership with the 5th gear.

    Since there is no such thing as a free lunch - In an endeavour to minimise downshifting to 4th during highway runs, FIAT ended up with a not too tall 5th gear which hampers very high speed cruising. Because the engine revs are way too high at those speeds to promote a relaxed high speed cruise.

    When doing 80kmph in 5th gear the Multijet is already at 2000rpm ! I don't remember exactly, but it's 2500rpm+ when doing a 100.

    To me 2500-2600rpm is a rather sweet spot, where the Multijet can eat mile after mile of tarmac. Any higher is pushing it. Mind you, it's a diesel we are talking of.

    So, had there been a 6th gear, which promoted a 130kmph at 2500rpm's , THAT would've been relaxed crusing. 130kmph in the 5th gear is 3000rpm+ (dunno exact) and that is NOT a relaxed rpm for the engine to cruise at, in my books.

    Since there are no Autobahns in India, we can perfectly live with the 5 gears.

    Cheers.

    No comments. I havent driven them.
    But a larger engine can support taller gear ratios, and that can mean higher speeds at less engine rpm's. And a cruise at less engine rpm's is always a relaxed cruise.
    1 person likes this.
  9. Relativity

    Relativity Superiore

    Messages:
    853
    Chennai
    I have only driven my 90 once at speeds exceeding 100 and IMHO, I could use a 6th gear.
  10. ENKI

    ENKI Esperto

    Humm... Thanks for the explanation, it makes sense.

    But one doubt, 90 HP does 160 km/hr@4000 rpm:p & 170 km/hr@4200 RPM, 180 km/hr@4400-4500 RPM.
    Pls refer below pics.

    5th gear@125@3100 RPM

    5th gear@125@3100 RPM.jpg

    5th gear@130 @3200 RPM
    5th gear@130 @3200 ROM.jpg

    5th gear@160@4000 RPM
    5th gear@165@4100 RPM.jpg

    5th gear@165@4100 RPM
    5th gear@165@4100 RPM.jpg

    5th gear@170@4200 RPM
    5th gear@170@4200 rpm.jpg

    Now some stuff if you will to trust me (i don't think that you will do that by the way:p)
    I think we have actually discovered accidentally why FIAT mentions Top speed as 172 km/hr. Since the peak power arrives@4200 RPM, they have not considered more than 4200 RPM for top speed.

    I had 90HP till 180 km/hr countless times & trust me it's not more than 4400 RPM. I was holding mobile while driving so could only manage some odd captures from the video. If you want it crystal clear & it doesn't violate TFI's security policy, give me a go ahead. It would be a personal favor as 180 km/hr is like getting up & yawning for my 90 HP.

    How much it will attain 5th gear@5200 RPM (which is it's limiter for over-revving & fuel cut off) is a very confusing question. Imagine if MJD would be liberated like VW TDI's till 5600 RPMs!! I am looking for 190 only. That seems easily possible, does it not?
    At present, it already makes mockery of Verna/Vento & will definitely put them to a very embarrassing situation (if it's me in my 90HP). I am sure of this as my elbows. Pls be ashamed & scared of your Punto's/Linea's if you can't help that 1248 cc complex, i will pounce on the opportunity in no time.

    When i say 90HP is a sick car, what makes it so unbelievable. It's not my fault if some one doesn't know the true capabilities of his vehicle. By the way, i feel 5th gear covers a very wide range from 60-190km/hr. The acceleration is there right from 1700 rpm@60 kmph onwards as per specification.
    2 people like this.
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